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Again with my motor..or maybe not


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#1 Keneu Luca

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 12:32 AM

So previously my arri torque motor had lost its strength. It would work for about half of the 400' load, then no longer take up. So I was able to find a new 12 v torque motor. The first thing I did when I got the new torque motor was run a full 400' through it with the the camera and magazine wide open so that I could observe everything. It was a dummy roll. Everything was fine. This new motor was working properly as it finished the entire 400' reel.

It was working fine at first, but a similar problem has since occurred. It started when I was shootng today. I could hear the film jamming inside the cmaera. I could hear it crinkle. And this was even before half the film went through. It was only like 100' through.


I have another dummy roll and the problem continues. The take up reel in the torque motor doesnt move.

What else could this be? Tim? Anyone?

Thanks.
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:24 AM

Keneu,

Really can't say without seeing the camera, mag and motor. Could be a number of things. Could be the movement timing is off and you are starting to tear perfs. Could be your battery is weak. Could be the electrical connection between the camera and torque motor is faulty. Could be a bad torque motor. Could be an issue with the spindles on the mag. Could be old film. Could be many different things.

It is pretty tough to try to diagnose this kind of thing without seeing the camera.

Best,
-Tim
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#3 Keneu Luca

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:03 PM

Keneu,

Really can't say without seeing the camera, mag and motor. Could be a number of things. Could be the movement timing is off and you are starting to tear perfs. Could be your battery is weak. Could be the electrical connection between the camera and torque motor is faulty. Could be a bad torque motor. Could be an issue with the spindles on the mag. Could be old film. Could be many different things.

It is pretty tough to try to diagnose this kind of thing without seeing the camera.

Best,
-Tim


Yeah I know someone would have to actually see the camera to diagnose. But I wanted to hear what some of the possibilities may be. Some of those possiblities Ive ruled out.

I really didnt think it was a weak battery (because so many other thngs were fine, like my speeds remained crystal - i have a tobin motor) although I did decide to charge it over night. Ill try again later to test with the newly charged battery when Im free.

Im thinking it may be the electrical connection between camera and torque motor. Tim, if that were the problem, how practical is a solution?

Thanks.
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:28 PM

Depends on where the problem is. Inside the camera, or at the actual connection point, or inside the torque motor. Again, nothing that I can diagnose over the internet.

Best,
-Tim

PS: Just to put this out there. I will be closing down my shop on June 20th and will be closed for the rest of the summer. Moving back to Chicago. So as far as my shop goes, any camera work that is not done by June 20th will have to wait till fall, once I get my shop set back up in Chicago.
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#5 Keneu Luca

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 01:06 AM

Depends on where the problem is. Inside the camera, or at the actual connection point, or inside the torque motor. Again, nothing that I can diagnose over the internet.

Best,
-Tim

PS: Just to put this out there. I will be closing down my shop on June 20th and will be closed for the rest of the summer. Moving back to Chicago. So as far as my shop goes, any camera work that is not done by June 20th will have to wait till fall, once I get my shop set back up in Chicago.



Good luck with the move, Tim. Glad to hear you'll be closer to me. I may bring you more business because of that.

About my new torque motor - I got it from Visual Products and the guy explained to me that the 12v modification consists of putting a limiter in the unit. I dont know if it was just that simple or if that was just his practical way of explaining it to a non-tech guy like myself. But is that in fact how its done, or is there more than one way to convert the torque motor to 12 volts? I m going to contact them and possibly ship it back to them so they can have a look as it did come with a warranty.

I dont know, it worked flawlessly when i first got it for an entire 400' load test-run.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:45 AM

Good luck with the move, Tim. Glad to hear you'll be closer to me. I may bring you more business because of that.

About my new torque motor - I got it from Visual Products and the guy explained to me that the 12v modification consists of putting a limiter in the unit. I dont know if it was just that simple or if that was just his practical way of explaining it to a non-tech guy like myself. But is that in fact how its done, or is there more than one way to convert the torque motor to 12 volts? I m going to contact them and possibly ship it back to them so they can have a look as it did come with a warranty.

I dont know, it worked flawlessly when i first got it for an entire 400' load test-run.


I've got a BS in Mechanical Engineering, and over thirty-three years experience in small mechanism design and development, and after all that time, I still don't know squat about electronics and electrical circuitry. It totally baffles me. Which is why, whenever I have questions about those kind of things I find someone who knows, and I ask them.

In the case of the Arriflex 16S Torque Motors, the "someone who knows" would be Clive Tobin. He knows more about converting those motors to 12 volt than anyone. Send him an email or give him a call. You can find his contact information on his web site.

Best,
-Tim
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#7 Keneu Luca

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 11:48 AM

I discovered the problem. After cleaning the various metal contacts on the torque motor, the mags, and the camera body, the issue was closer to being resolved, except with one mag. It's the spring lever guide rollers in the mag on the take up side. Out of my 3 mags, two of the rollers werent so bad, but one of them gives way too much resistance. And the spring lever rises a bit too much away from he mag body, if that makes sense.

I can't believe that this was my problem.

I bought this camera from someone off ebay and who knows how long they had it sitting around. I did get the camera serviced right after buying it, but I only had the camera itself serviced, not the mags. I didnt realize how important it was for the guide rollers to be smooth and completely felxible.

So, Tim, I am going to unscrew the guide rollers and oil them. Any particular oil I should use? Or any other suggestions about this?

Thanks.
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 12:43 PM

So, Tim, I am going to unscrew the guide rollers and oil them. Any particular oil I should use? Or any other suggestions about this?

Thanks.


We use Chronosynth. It is an ARRI oil. You could contact ARRI in New York to see if you could buy some from them.

Best,
-Tim
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