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Ektachrome 100d


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#1 John Butler

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 10:17 PM

I would like to know how this film compares to similar negative films in terms of sharpness and grain. The typical idea is that reversal films are usually sharper and finer grained, with less latitude and greater color saturation. How would this compare, simply detail/grain wise, to a comparable negative stock, ie 5212? Kodak is very uninformative as to whether this has the same technology as the vision2 line incorporated or not.
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#2 andy oliver

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 07:57 AM

Hi, sorry i cannot answer your question, but in terms of sharpness both in the 8 and 16mm formats, i've found the stock to lack the resolving power of kodachrome 25 and even k40 reversal stock. 100d looks great on BCU, but on distant objects with the lens on inifity, the sharpness is just not there.. I'm seeking an alternative resversal stock to use once my k/c stash has been exhausted. Most accurate colour saturation, along with amazing sharpness goes to 16mm fuji 64t reversal, cut into the 16mm format by Wittner, trouble is, there are steadyness issues with the stock, could be something to do with the QC of the perfing.. Back to your question, i would say kodak neg stocks would have greater resolving power over 100d..
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#3 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 09:34 AM

Current generation negatives have far greater resolving power and lower granularity than reversal film. K-40 was exceptionally good in both these categories, but E-100 isn't comparable to it, as is E-64 or E-125, let alone EXR/Vision/2 .

Now this has already been discussed in another thread and posted in the S8 forum FAQ here, but you can ideally expect a response of at least 100lp/mm for 7217 (V-200, @ 20% in green layer), while 7268 (K-40) gave you 70lp/mm (All film stock hacks: sorry to you, I really simplify this for the sake of a short answer). Granularity's RMS measure is 9 for K-40 (I think it was 11 for E-125, will doublecheck with spec sheet in office) while it is between 4 and 6 for 7217, depending on the density in the specific colour layers.

So quantifiably, 7217 is seriously "sharper" and "less grainy" than E-100, even K-40 or most other reversal film. Hope that was a short'n-sweet answer that you were looking for.

Cheers,-Michael
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#4 John Butler

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 12:57 AM

Thank you for your informative answer. I thought the negative films seemed sharper.
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#5 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 09:16 AM

It absolutely is!

E-100 does not incorporate T-grain technology found in the EXR/Vision-family. It's also quite difficult to figure out which are its photo relatives... I havn't been able to do so. And apparently neither have others, which explains why your other thread on this topic as remained unanswered so far :(
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 03:31 PM

It absolutely is!

E-100 does not incorporate T-grain technology found in the EXR/Vision-family. It's also quite difficult to figure out which are its photo relatives... I havn't been able to do so. And apparently neither have others, which explains why your other thread on this topic as remained unanswered so far :(


This is not correct.

E-100 [VS] is an older film than the double electron sensitized films, but I am certain that it was improved around the turn of the century, so it certainly does have T-grain technology, as all films introduced by Kodak since 1987 have incorporated it.

However, E100VS was not improved when E100S and E100SW were replaced by the newer E100G and -GXs circa 2002. Becauses this film is "vividly saturated", it is going to be grainier than its neutral color and saturated counterparts by default. All saturated films have more visible grain; it's the nature of color films designed this way.

Also, keep in mind that, even though V2 stocks may resolve more and be sharper, they are going to appear grainier than Ektachrome. This is also a characteristic of reversal films; they appear finer grained because of the reversal process unless you are comparing very old stock, like E64T or an old VNF stock with a modern vision 2 stock.

Hope this helps!

Also, keep in mind that your exposure needs to be spot-on with reversal film, within 1/4 f/stop, and that there are all sorts of problems with reproducing it within the optical workflow (i.e. non-DI/telecine).


~KB
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#7 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 04:11 PM

E-100 does not incorporate T-grain technology found in the EXR/Vision-family. It's also quite difficult to figure out which are its photo relatives


This is not correct.

E-100 [VS] is an older film than the double electron sensitized films, but I am certain that it was improved around the turn of the century, so it certainly does have T-grain technology, as all films introduced by Kodak since 1987 have incorporated it.
However, E100VS was not improved when E100S and E100SW were replaced by the newer E100G and -GXs circa 2002.


Thank you Karl for your clarification. I stand corrected :) !

I thought that the E-100 emulsion repackaged for Super 8 is based on in effect obsolete film stocks :huh: . Do you happen to know by chance which of those E-100 films you mention above ends up in Super 8 cartridges and 16 reels? Will asked the question in another tied-in thread here, with no replies so far :( .


reversal films appear finer grained because of the reversal process unless you are comparing very old stock, like E64T or an old VNF stock with a modern vision 2 stock.
Hope this helps!


That's why I compared discontinued 7268 (K-40) and 7217 (V2-200) in my post, because both are very good in respect to grain. 7265 (Plus-X) is also in the same league.

Unfortunately, the latter half of your reply describes exactly what S8 and to some extent 16-shooters would have to normally compare 7217 and V2/3-500 with: for reversals, only E-64 and until a while ago (ghastly) VNF 7240 (!) were supplied by Kodak.

E-100 is only available as repackaged film stock from various resellers in the USA (Spectra) and Germany (Wittner) in the Super 8 cartridge, as I am sure you know. Figuring out which of the E-100 emulsions is actually in those cartridges is extremely difficult. Which brings us full circle to the beginning of this post.

Cheers,

-Michael
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