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Arri 3-Perf


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#1 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:56 AM

This is the first time I've considered shooting on film... this would be for an effect shot, where the rest of the film will be shot on Dalsa and Red (Epic - 2009 shoot) (both shooting 2:1), If I shoot 3-perf 35mm what would be the aspect ratio? I'm sure you can tell I have no experience with 35mm (or film at all), so if this seems like a simple question or makes no sense at all, sorry. From what I was reading on the Arri website, it seems like it's 1.78:1? What if I shot 3-perf super 35? would that get me 1.85:1?

Edited by Andrew McCarrick, 23 June 2008 - 01:57 AM.

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#2 Andreas Wessberg FSF

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:01 AM

Hi Andrew!

if you shoot 3 perf in super35 you will have the aspect ratio 1.78:1
With standard gate you will have 1.57:1,

andreas
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#3 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:51 AM

Hi Andrew!

if you shoot 3 perf in super35 you will have the aspect ratio 1.78:1
With standard gate you will have 1.57:1,

andreas



Thanks, for the response... now my question would be where do I get 3-perf 35 stock from... I can't find anything on the Kodak website.

Also, I'm looking at either scanning this in for DI at 6k or 5k and then cropping to 2:1 to match the Dalsa footage. Can anyone figure out my effect resolution after the crop? I came up with 5385 (from 6k) and 4488 (from 5k) but that doesn't seem right.
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#4 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:14 AM

Thanks, for the response... now my question would be where do I get 3-perf 35 stock from... I can't find anything on the Kodak website.

Also, I'm looking at either scanning this in for DI at 6k or 5k and then cropping to 2:1 to match the Dalsa footage. Can anyone figure out my effect resolution after the crop? I came up with 5385 (from 6k) and 4488 (from 5k) but that doesn't seem right.


35mm stock is 35mm stock, the shooting format is only related to the camera and how its set up. The stock can be purchased directly from Kodak or Fuji, but otherwise the camera rental firm will be able to provide stock with the rental.

You will have to speak to your local Telecine facilities about scanning options and prices - 6k may turn out a little pricey.
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#5 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:56 AM

Now... since I've never dealt with film before; I'd like to know the process of loading and unloading (step-by-step) if any one knows of any websites that covers this or anything, that would be great.
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#6 John Brawley

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:11 AM

Now... since I've never dealt with film before; I'd like to know the process of loading and unloading (step-by-step) if any one knows of any websites that covers this or anything, that would be great.



Just get an experienced loader. Why would you want to do it yourself ? It's something that can be taught in a couple of hours for a specific camera (you won't really be able to learn online or through here) but it'll take some time and practise before you become proficient. And again..why would you. That's what loaders are for.



jb
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#7 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:29 AM

Just get an experienced loader. Why would you want to do it yourself ? It's something that can be taught in a couple of hours for a specific camera (you won't really be able to learn online or through here) but it'll take some time and practise before you become proficient. And again..why would you. That's what loaders are for.



jb



We're going to end up running 12-16 cameras so I was thinking it be cheaper (and faster) if I could do it as well.
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#8 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:12 AM

We're going to end up running 12-16 cameras so I was thinking it be cheaper (and faster) if I could do it as well.


Sounds expensive! I've never heard of someone running so many 35mm cameras in unison, you may have a hard time getting that many kits together!

Arri magazines are very easy to load but experienced loaders will do them perfectly and swiftly and as far as I know about this, the production's insurance will be expecting a loader to be loading the magazines (though its not unusual for liberties to be taken there).

If you need to learn, let the loaders talk you through it.

Edited by Andy_Alderslade, 23 June 2008 - 08:16 AM.

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#9 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:25 AM

Well that's the easy effect shot... there's another one that would be upwards of 60 cameras. Would you know of product catalog from Arri that has prices in them? The 2008 catalog doesn't have prices for whatever reason. I may purchase some cameras, just because of the fact I doubt we can rent that many.
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#10 Max Jacoby

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:30 AM

You want to purchase some Arri cameras?

Do you have some spare millions lying around?
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#11 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:32 AM

Well that's the easy effect shot... there's another one that would be upwards of 60 cameras. Would you know of product catalog from Arri that has prices in them? The 2008 catalog doesn't have prices for whatever reason. I may purchase some cameras, just because of the fact I doubt we can rent that many.


Also, are there any units to trigger start/run on more then one camera at once?
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#12 Andreas Wessberg FSF

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:53 AM

What can I say?
This sounds like an interesting shoot.
60 cameras, are you for real? I´d love to be on your set.
Had five 35mm cameras once, thought that was big.

Is it gonna be highspeed as well?

Good luck and money,.you need it!!!!!

Andreas
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#13 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 10:57 AM

Is it gonna be highspeed as well?


yep... either 48 or 72fps... It's kind of like the Matrix Style 360 camera moves in the fight sequences.
I know there are easier was then using so many cameras... but I want to roll cameras in every step in the move so we can decide on the speed and starting point of the move (from camera to camera) once we have it shot.

They also did something similar in Shrek....

- at 4:20

and the original in the Matrix film:
- at 0:01, 0:12, 1:50, and 2:30

(I don't support piracy but, it's the only way I can think of showing what I mean.)

Edited by Andrew McCarrick, 23 June 2008 - 10:59 AM.

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#14 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:54 AM

yep... either 48 or 72fps... It's kind of like the Matrix Style 360 camera moves in the fight sequences.


Weren't those sequences made using high numbers of 35mm stills cameras? Of course you could certainly use digital stills cameras.
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#15 John Holland

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:57 AM

Hello anyone there ? Shrek was computer cartoon !!! . As for the yawn "Matrix" those now over used effects were done using 35 mm still cameras .
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#16 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:04 PM

Weren't those sequences made using high numbers of 35mm stills cameras? Of course you could certainly use digital stills cameras.


Right but using still cameras forces me to decide which order to fire them off in.... instead of having the choice to pick the starting spot in post, and then having every frame of the other cameras to choose which way the move should go.

Hello anyone there ? Shrek was computer cartoon !!! . As for the yawn "Matrix" those now over used effects were done using 35 mm still cameras .

Yes, I know shrek was animated, but it had the same camera movement... was just using it to elaborate the physical movement of the shot.

Edited by Andrew McCarrick, 23 June 2008 - 12:06 PM.

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#17 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:05 PM

Hello anyone there ? Shrek was computer cartoon !!! . As for the yawn "Matrix" those now over used effects were done using 35 mm still cameras .


I thought they were still cameras, I have a behind the scenes picture here somewhere, I'll scan it when I get a chance.

Why would you need 60 motion picture cameras? You can only see so many different camera angle at a time.

The only people I imagine who would have that many 35mm motion picture cameras would be an animation company like Aardman, I here when they're not in feature production they have about 50 Fries Mitchel's pilled up in storage.
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#18 Andrew McCarrick

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:08 PM

Why would you need 60 motion picture cameras? You can only see so many different camera angle at a time.


Put each camera right next to each other, and jump cut from one to the next but with motion picture cameras, as opposed to still cameras, I have all the cameras having the same frames.... so I could freeze frame and rotate around, or slow motion and rotate around.... I can change the speed of the rotation and the direction of the rotation.

Edited by Andrew McCarrick, 23 June 2008 - 12:11 PM.

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#19 John Holland

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:18 PM

This is so silly i really think you ought to go away have a big think about what you are saying !! . Do you think huge budget films like "Matrix" , might have had thoughts about what you are suggesting ??? . This is to stupid for words .
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#20 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:29 PM

Put each camera right next to each other, and jump cut from one to the next but with motion picture cameras, as opposed to still cameras, I have all the cameras having the same frames.... so I could freeze frame and rotate around, or slow motion and rotate around.... I can change the speed of the rotation and the direction of the rotation.


But wouldn't digital stills cameras (set up to take a quick succession of frames) do the job better for a fraction of the price.

Not only do you have to source 60 35mm motion picture cameras, which is no small feat, you will have to source 60 identical lenses.

It seems for great special effects shots, you need to know exactly what you want before you do it, there is no room for choice or even coverage!
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