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Film Hike is hitting home...


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#1 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:26 PM

I need to vent to my Super 8 brothers. I went to my local camera store today and purchased 4 rolls of Ektachrome 64t that I'm going to use to shoot some exteriors for my next short. I was used to going there and spending $15.95 + tax...not now! Today it was $19.95 + tax per roll! I couldn't believe it. For what I paid today, I could've gotten 5 rolls a month ago. Will someone please cut Super 8 shooters a break when you consider how small of a gauge we are shooting on. Can't someone actually offer a price for Super 8 film commensurate with the small gauge AND length. For goodness sake, you can cut 4 rolls of Super 8 from an un-perfed daylight spool of 16mm! So why is Super 8 film so expensive????

Sorry for that, I had to get it all out.
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#2 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:30 PM

Wow, that's pretty much those 20% Kodak was on about in that press release discussed here a while ago.

The going rate for E-64 in the UK is at the Widescreen Centre in Baker Street £13.98, which is $27.45 (incl. VAT/tax). Developing is £12.90 / $25.33 (incl. VAT/tax).
Total per cartridge: £26.88 / $52.78

You can save £2.88 / $ 5.66 with a package price "E-64 & processing" for £24.- / $47.12

Let's see how the prices change in the UK. So far, they have been at that level for some time now. Unless you get a batch 310 write-off, which really hurts footage-wise & money-wise.
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#3 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:39 PM

Wow, that's pretty much those 20% Kodak was on about in that press release discussed here a while ago.

The going rate for E-64 in the UK is at the Widescreen Centre in Baker Street £13.98, which is $27.45 (incl. VAT/tax). Developing is £12.90 / $25.33 (incl. VAT/tax).
Total per cartridge: £26.88 / $52.78

You can save £2.88 / $ 5.66 with a package price "E-64 & processing" for £24.- / $47.12

Let's see how the prices change in the UK. So far, they have been at that level for some time now. Unless you get a batch 310 write-off, which really hurts footage-wise & money-wise.


Ok, I feel a little better now. I paid $19.95 + tax ($21.50) and add $10.00 + $4.00 shipping to Dwayne's (people tell me to find a closer processer but I really like their work for E6) so overall it's about $35.50. That seems high to me for 2.5 minutes of footage. Especially when you consider a daylight spool of 100D reversal 16mm from Spectra is $65.00 with processing. Like I pointed out, the amount of film in that spool could theoretically make 4 rolls of Super 8. Therefore, why is the S8 roll more than half of the cost?

The raw stock of 100D Ektachrome 16mm daylight spool is $49.50. Imagine if they actually cut Super rolls from that and charged only the percentage of that price. That would be $12.38 a roll. OMG, I would leap for joy if that happened...sadly, it wont.
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#4 Jim Carlile

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 10:56 PM

Like all the other profit-takers these days, your camera store heard about the Kodak price increases, and just raised prices on their own, to make some xtra money. What you want to bet it was prior stock anyway?

As during the inflationary 70s, many merchants have become thieves, taking advantage of rising general prices to tack on an extra little profit center of their own, regardless of what they are paying for things wholesale.

Been to a grocery store lately? There's no excuse for prices to have risen 30 to 40 per cent the last three months.
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#5 Mike Crane

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:53 PM

Like all the other profit-takers these days, your camera store heard about the Kodak price increases, and just raised prices on their own, to make some xtra money. What you want to bet it was prior stock anyway?

As during the inflationary 70s, many merchants have become thieves, taking advantage of rising general prices to tack on an extra little profit center of their own, regardless of what they are paying for things wholesale.


I disagree. Kodak does not offer merchants any discount - period. Merchants going to them always pay full pop while they only feed students and experimental filmmakers the discounts. This is, in part, a big mistake. It prevents many camera stores from wanting to sell and promote Kodak film - something Kodak and the film industry needs desperately. Most dealers these days make only a small mark-up which can not support any advertising or shelf space. Since it?s always a bit cheaper to buy at Kodak, dealers sell very little film to the convenience shopper making it a less desirable item to stock.

Remember the days when you could buy super 8 at every drug store, camera store or large retail store at competitive prices? Remember the friendly camera sales guy that showed you everything about how to shoot super 8 film? That was when Kodak supported dealers who made up an army of sales people and promoters. Think of how many more people where being properly educated and swayed into using film. Those days are over, leaving but a few small companies to survive on the scraps of profit they can get for selling and promoting Kodak film in their stores. How many soldiers can be expected to fight for film when the general has left the battlefield?
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#6 Josh Allen

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:17 AM

Not to add to your misery but up to today Dwaynes had 64t on Ebay for 15 with free shipping. Seems they are doing this regularly as a promotion for their services.
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#7 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:24 AM

Not to add to your misery but up to today Dwaynes had 64t on Ebay for 15 with free shipping. Seems they are doing this regularly as a promotion for their services.


Yeah, I know. But at the moment time is of the essence. At least for SHOOTING the roll. When I buy more next month, I may see if they still have auctions up like this.
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#8 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:28 AM

Like all the other profit-takers these days, your camera store heard about the Kodak price increases, and just raised prices on their own, to make some xtra money. What you want to bet it was prior stock anyway?

As during the inflationary 70s, many merchants have become thieves, taking advantage of rising general prices to tack on an extra little profit center of their own, regardless of what they are paying for things wholesale.

Been to a grocery store lately? There's no excuse for prices to have risen 30 to 40 per cent the last three months.


I agree with you. Also, I KNOW this is not the newest stock because 3 of the 4 rolls were batch 309. The other one was batch 310. I'm actually glad most of them are batch 309 since I've heard terrible things about batch 310. Consequently, 310 was my tester roll today.
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#9 timHealy

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:10 PM

For what it is worth, if you are student (or an adult who recently took a class and have a student ID) you can get a student discount from Kodak. The last time I was at the Kodak will call in NYC it was either 10% or 20% off. I forget which, but if your buying a lot of film, it may be worth it. Even with the city's 8.375% sales tax, you can save a little.

Best

Tim
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#10 Will Montgomery

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:32 PM

The cheapest way to get Kodak film as always is just to order direct but shipping does even it out a little. They have next day DHL shipping for $20 and regular UPS for $12.

Ektachrome 64T: $14
Color Negative (200T & 500T): $15.15
B&W Reversal: $10.59

If I ever run across it locally I almost always buy a roll just to support the store, but mainly I just place a larger order every 3 months or so with Kodak. These costs haven't really changed very much in several years.
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#11 Jim Carlile

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:42 PM

If Kodak is still selling 64T for $14 that means they haven't raised their prices yet, which means the camera store got the increase memo and just decided to change the price right then and there.

What a rip-off-- return it and demand your money back.

And then buy from Kodak--- :)

This kind of thing has been happening a lot lately-- it's just like the 70s, when energy prices went up, others tried to exploit it and tack on their little advantage, which caused everything to go up. It was so bad back then that we actually had government wage and price controls (under Nixon.. .)
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#12 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 09:22 PM

What a rip-off-- return it and demand your money back.

And then buy from Kodak--- :)


I would but I noticed my receipt said "No cash refunds...Store credit only. Restocking feee may apply."

They are like the worse camera store around...but unfortunately the onlt ones local to me with S8 stock.
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#13 K Borowski

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 03:26 PM

I would but I noticed my receipt said "No cash refunds...Store credit only. Restocking feee may apply."

They are like the worse camera store around...but unfortunately the onlt ones local to me with S8 stock.


Well Matthew, you know the old saying that haste makes waste.

If you're so concerned with saving money shooting S8, why not track down a DS8 Bolex on eBay? You'll see prices exactly 1/4 of shooting 16mm where rawstock and processing costs are concerned, and you'll have far less waste at the ends of the rolls (assuming you use a changing bag to avoid fogging on the ends of the film) than with 50-foot cartridges.

No waste due to having to reshoot due to jittery film in the gates, and, in theory, the ability to obtain any 16mm stock that Kodak makes if you can post a large-enough minimum order.

There are always ways to save money. . .
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#14 Alessandro Malfatti

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 10:53 AM

You complain to much, my friend. I'm lucky enough to live in good ol' Mexico, we don't get Super8 here, at least not 64t. Everything must be ordered from our friendly neighbour (you ever noticed how the word neighbour has way to many letters?) to the north (not Canada). I had Ektachrome 64t processed recently, shipping cost me 38 Dollars to and back from Dwayne's, which is to the engaged amateur the only option, since they seem to have the best price. So not only do I have to plan way in advance, because you never know here how long it is going to take for the package to arrive, but I also pay astronomical amounts of shipping (76 dollars? fu**, for that I could have three more rolls with processing!) Let's make a little math exercise, you pay 21$ per roll, plus 10$ processing and 10$ each way for shipping (To and back again, makes 20$). I pay 15$ per roll, 10$ processing 38$ each way for shipping (To me, to Dwaynes and back, three times makes 114$). To shoot the same amount of film for LESS then what you pay that would mean... crikey, been long since I did this stuff, lemme get a piece of paper. OK, I'd have to order 16 rolls at the same time, which would bring overall costs to 514 (unless mail costs more, but let's not think about that for now), you would pay for 16 rolls just 2$ more, 516$ (Don't believe me? Do the math yourself). On an amount smaller than 16 rollst, say 10, you'd still pay way less than me. Now, who has a right to complain? :lol:
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#15 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 12:36 PM

Actually, I'm sortof happy right now because I recently picked up 4 rolls of 64t off eBay that some dude had left over from a wedding shoot. I got them, including shipping for $61. That works out to $15.25/roll? This film at Pardee's cameras would have been $86. Overall I'm saving $25 which works for me. So now my short film stash is up to 7 rolls. Just need a few more rolls and I'll be ready for August 2nd.
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#16 Paul Bruening

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:24 PM

Actually, I'm sortof happy right now because I recently picked up 4 rolls of 64t off eBay that some dude had left over from a wedding shoot. I got them, including shipping for $61. That works out to $15.25/roll? This film at Pardee's cameras would have been $86. Overall I'm saving $25 which works for me. So now my short film stash is up to 7 rolls. Just need a few more rolls and I'll be ready for August 2nd.


I'm trying to understand this since I haven't done S8 math in a long time. At $15.25 per roll to buy and $10.00 to process, you're paying 16.7 cents per second of run time at 24fps. Now, my 2P35 costs are 18.1 cents per second of runtime at 24fps. And that's when I'm paying un-negotiated, asking price for stock and processing.

Since you can get a IIA or B with lenses off of Ebay for about $1,000 these days, why are you shooting S8? Is there something I'm missing? Is telecine that much cheaper with S8 than 2P35? All the other factors are the same: Film changes, ASAs, camera noise and sync. What am I missing?
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#17 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:20 PM

I'm trying to understand this since I haven't done S8 math in a long time. At $15.25 per roll to buy and $10.00 to process, you're paying 16.7 cents per second of run time at 24fps. Now, my 2P35 costs are 18.1 cents per second of runtime at 24fps. And that's when I'm paying un-negotiated, asking price for stock and processing.

Since you can get a IIA or B with lenses off of Ebay for about $1,000 these days, why are you shooting S8? Is there something I'm missing? Is telecine that much cheaper with S8 than 2P35? All the other factors are the same: Film changes, ASAs, camera noise and sync. What am I missing?


It's not that simple really. In theory it sounds like "Well it's only $200 more for this and 2 cents/ft more than that", etc. But believe me, I wanted to shoot this short on 16mm and I came up short no matter how hard I tried. I am barely able to shoot it on S8 so 16mm is just enough out of reach to matter.
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#18 Will Montgomery

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:15 PM

Actually, I'm sortof happy right now because I recently picked up 4 rolls of 64t off eBay that some dude had left over from a wedding shoot. I got them, including shipping for $61. That works out to $15.25/roll? This film at Pardee's cameras would have been $86. Overall I'm saving $25 which works for me. So now my short film stash is up to 7 rolls. Just need a few more rolls and I'll be ready for August 2nd.


Not to rain on your parade but the same order direct from Kodak for the freshest, safest stored film would have cost you $68 including shipping. $7 savings for (4) rolls of film and you don't know how they were stored doesn't seem like that great of a deal.

Now if we would see film for 30-40% off of what Kodak charges then I would start buying off eBay because the risk starts to make sense.
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#19 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:21 PM

Not to rain on your parade but the same order direct from Kodak for the freshest, safest stored film would have cost you $68 including shipping. $7 savings for (4) rolls of film and you don't know how they were stored doesn't seem like that great of a deal.

Now if we would see film for 30-40% off of what Kodak charges then I would start buying off eBay because the risk starts to make sense.


I'm not sure I understand this logic. If you are primary concerned with film freshness then you should order from Kodak directly regardless of cost. If you are reasonably confident that the film you're getting from the secondary market is fresh (which I believe it is after talking with the seller) then you should get it as cheaply as possible. Saving 30-40% isn't going to matter if the film is bad.
I would love to save 30-40% off Kodak direct prices but I don't think that's going to happen with Super 8 film. So I suppose it comes down to buying direct for assurance or buying as cheaply as possible.
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#20 Will Montgomery

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 09:25 AM

I'm not sure I understand this logic. If you are primary concerned with film freshness then you should order from Kodak directly regardless of cost. If you are reasonably confident that the film you're getting from the secondary market is fresh (which I believe it is after talking with the seller) then you should get it as cheaply as possible. Saving 30-40% isn't going to matter if the film is bad.
I would love to save 30-40% off Kodak direct prices but I don't think that's going to happen with Super 8 film. So I suppose it comes down to buying direct for assurance or buying as cheaply as possible.


I'm glad you had a good experience, I've had good and bad. On eBay I've conversed with sellers who convinced me it was great later to find out it had been x-rayed. Film Emporium is ok, I've only had one questionable reel out of maybe 20 from them. But if that one reel was on a shot that I really needed that would have sucked. For me saving $1.50 a cartridge wouldn't make it worth the risk; especially on a commercial project or anything I would hope might be artistically worthy or even make money. For everyday family shots I would consider eBay as long as it was 30-40% less to make the risk more palatable, but then rarely does film become available at that price because so many hobbyists don't even know you can order direct.

For me I can save much more money in the telecine process by negotiating and looking for good places that might be slow at the moment rather than using short ends, recans and eBay.

Besides, if I keep this up maybe Kodak will give me some free film for the advertising! :rolleyes:
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