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shooting in a car. Road movie


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#1 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:49 AM

Hello everybody.
I am trying to organize a film shooting in August, short film. It is a kind of road movie. The script is not done yet (very breifly a couple going somewhere, getting lost, fighting, drama but a bit surreal). I would like to keep it open to many changes and i will try to improvise while shooting the film as much as i can. it is going to happen in Greece, in Crete in the middle of the day (Very hot!!!). The main idea is that it is that the shooting will always happen on the way and in the car, mainly.
I want to include many shoots from the back of the car. but I was thinking what kind of camera and lens should i use, so that I could come close to the subjects without having focusing problems.
I was thinking for a beaulieu R16 but I have heard that it is quite noisy. Noisy but small though. The other advantage of the beaulieu is that is quite light to go on a car mount for shoots from the outside of the car. the disadvantages are that is not sound sync but i do not really mind a lot .

What are the questions now?:
1)Is there an alternative (better) camera for these kind of shooting? I have found a Arri srII but it is too heavy for what i am looking for, practically and conceptually. I like to work with cameras that make me feel good as i used to be a super 8 guy.
2) what kind of wide lens should use for the scenes at the back of the car? 10mm? will i have a great distortion?
3) is there any way to quite down a bolex or beaulieu during the shooting? Like putting cloths or blankets around the camera body? I know it sounds silly but i like to be primitive with these things sometimes. The good thing is that the car is old and noisy as well.
4) should i go down to fuji 250D or kodak 200t (middle of the day and summer-very bright)?
please note that i am not i filmmaker but I am an artist and i love film in general. Please help as i do not want to go down to digital. I do whatever i can not to change my mind. and i am about to get in great expenses by inviting people to Crete to help, finding a flat and food for them...

Sorry for all these questions but please help me at even one them.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
thanks
ioannis
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#2 Nate Downes

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 09:19 AM

I am shooting a road movie in just this manner myself. For a camera, take a look at the Canon Scoopic and Eclair NPR as good options that are not that loud.

For me, I'm using a Super8, Chinon 200/12XL.
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#3 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:41 PM

I am shooting a road movie in just this manner myself. For a camera, take a look at the Canon Scoopic and Eclair NPR as good options that are not that loud.

For me, I'm using a Super8, Chinon 200/12XL.



thanks for your input. I dropped an eye on the scoopic, it looks lovely....but i do not know how much i could rely on it. Could somebody tell me how loud is it? is it like a bolex or louder? And another thing I couldn't find on the internet: Is if there is any remote control for this camera?
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#4 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 04:17 AM

Is there any way to put a scoopic on a tripod? It looks like there is no tread :huh:
thanks
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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:46 AM

If you're recording audio I'd strongly recommend an Eclair, Aaton, or Arri, as they're steady, sync, and run off of mags for longer run times!
For lenses, I like a 9.5mm (well mine's a 9.8 mm) it's a very wide lens, from Optar Illumina, but it's a fast T1.3. I recently shot a sequence in the passenger seat of a Ford Mustang and comfortably framed the driver and console. Also look into a 16mm or a 25mm for closer and more intimate shots you might want to do. A 50mm would be a nice complementary telephoto type lens but whether or not you need closer and/or wide shots will depend on how you want to tell the story and the optical properties you want to use (e.g. Close up with a wide angle lens vs close up with a long lens!)

Really, the weight of a S16mm camera isn't THAT bad! Also I prefer the shoulder mount to anything I've seen from Bolex etc. Also, Eclairs came as stock R16mm, as did most earlier Aatons and Arris (LTRs, and SRs respectively). The later ones, such as the Aaton XTR and Arri SR3 are all switchable between R16mm and S16mm depending on what you'd want. I'd personally go with S16mm for better frame utilization when working on wider aspect ratios (1.85:1, though I believe S16mm is closer to 1.78:1). Granted you cannot directly project S16mm as far as I know, so you'd need to go through a post process.

OK, on to film. I love the Kodak 7217 200T for daylight. The problem is you need an 85 filter on it, and at that point you're throwing on a matte box and making the camera larger. Now, the 7205 kodak, 250D is an incredible stock with a lot of exposure room for overs and unders in my experience, and I'd recommend bringing it for subdued light situations. Don't forget, it's only 1 stop slower than the FASTEST kodak film (7218/19/79 500T). I'd also recommend from 7201, 50D for bright direct sunlight, or when you want to minimize DoF, though often even with 50D you'll find yourself at an F11!

If you're set on the bolex type cameras, you can try to quiet them. The EBM and SBM are quieter than the REX (which is the wind up) but they're noisy cameras all in all. Best case scenario for it, I can think of, would be covering the camera in soundproofing, and then using wireless lavs to record audio, in order to get the mics as close to the actors as possible and reduce your signal to noise ratio. Even then, you will still get road noise and probably some camera noise into the track; but some creativity in post may well take that out (i recommend testing, even if only with a dummy roll and the camera to ascertain how quiet it is).
Might also be a good idea to make friends with a local Dp/camer op/and or gaffer to help you out with the technical things which will always spring up!

My 2 Cents and;
Best of luck!
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#6 Zachary Vex

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 03:58 AM

Scoopics are threaded and ready for tripod mount.
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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 06:18 AM

The camera noise won't be an issue if you mount the camera outside the car. Although, shooting sync sound with 100ft loads tends to be a bit wasteful compared using 400ft loads.

I've shot car interiors with an Arri 16BL, it can be done, although it's more restrictive mounted inside the car than the co-ax mags cameras like the Arri 16SR series, Aatons and Elcairs.

On Crete the problem is going to be balancing deep shadows with the sun lit areas. Slow daylight light film stock will be fine for summer exteriors there or even 100T, these will keep the grain size down.

Edited by Brian Drysdale, 03 July 2008 - 06:18 AM.

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#8 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:30 PM

Thanks for all the replies, quite enlightening. I think an Eclair 2 is the best option. but could i use a canon scoopic as camera 2? is the look of an angenieux 12-120 very different from that of the canon lens? I am thinking to do the external shoots with the scoopic on a car mount and use the eclair for the shoots in the car.
Anyway, many things have to be solved at that very moment, i guess.

as far as it concerns the film stock i think i go down the slow stuff (100?).
But what if i use 500t with ND6 filters? how much does the filter affect the outcome? I am also thinking about two different looks for the shoots inside and outside the car (???).
Is it going to look peculiar-interesting or...?
Anyway I like to work with mistakes. And I prefer more to try to correct them but any thoughts are always valuable.

Thanks everybody for the help. :rolleyes:
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#9 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 01:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies, quite enlightening. I think an Eclair 2 is the best option. but could i use a canon scoopic as camera 2? is the look of an angenieux 12-120 very different from that of the canon lens? I am thinking to do the external shoots with the scoopic on a car mount and use the eclair for the shoots in the car.



The problem with the 12-120 is that it only focuses down to 5ft, which would be an issue inside a car.
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#10 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 03:06 PM

An additional thing I did not mention is that the light in Crete at 1.00pm is so strong that there are almost no shadows. it is bleaching everything out and that is why i want to shoot it there. bleached, sick colors :ph34r: .
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#11 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 10:56 AM

An additional thing I did not mention is that the light in Crete at 1.00pm is so strong that there are almost no shadows. it is bleaching everything out and that is why i want to shoot it there. bleached, sick colors :ph34r: .



However, it'll be deep shadow inside a car, so you may wish to balance the interior with the exterior.
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