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Question about an Eclair NPR auction


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#1 Ray Noori

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 09:47 AM

Hello,

Some of you may have seen my other posts on the Bolex and Arri forums. I've been doing some research, trying to find an ideal replacement for my Bolex H16 Rex-4. I'm hoping for something that would be quiet enough for sync sound, not spring-loaded, and possibly to convert to Super-16. After weeks of research I think I've found my answer in Elair NPR. So I have three questions:

1) Am I wrong in making that choice based on the criteria I listed? Is there something I should beware of about Eclair NPR that I don't know about? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has sample footage shot with an NPR I'd love to see it.

2) I'm looking at a few online stores and a couple of eBay auctions. The following caught my eye:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/w...t...A:IT&ih=007

Other than the crystal motor not being in working order, does everything else seem fine? How much would it cost to get a new crystal sync motor for NPR or repair one? Also, I'm not sure what the constant speed motor is and how well it functions. Does anyone know? Other than that everything else seems find to me, and the lens is a standard Angenieux zoom. $1500 seems like a reasonable price, no?

3) Another factor in choosing an NPR was that I could use my C-mount lenses from Bolex Rex-4 on it. Am I correct in that assumption?

Thank you in advance for your time and advice.
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#2 Tim Terner

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 01:45 PM

I own both Ray, I bought the NPR to be converted to super 16 and to take Arri PL mount lenses (something Les Bosher can do for $1500) but haven't been in the financial position yet to have the work done. Bizzare, but the 3 switar primes I have (10mm, 26mm and 75mm) came with the NPR while the Bolex I bought had no lenses, but all look OK on the NPR. Not 100%, but believe the constant speed motor is not synced but the other motor (if repairable) will be. Mine came with a Angenieux 12-120 so no knowledge of the 15-150.
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#3 Ray Noori

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 03:58 PM

Thanks for the response Tim. It's time for me to admit something rather embaressing. And that is my lack of full understanding of what crystal sync is.

From what I understand crystal sync motors were developed so the footage recording and the camera recording could be in perfect sync without the two devices being connected with a cable and that has the inherent plus that you can now have several crystal sync cameras running on one scene and one crystal sync audio recorder.

Now. Is that level of precision really absolutely needed in sync-sound filmmaking? For example, running the NPR camera that I linked to above with the constant speed motor that is not crystal sync, along with an audio field recorder, will I not be able to sync the audio with the footage without it looking bad? Assuming that the answer is "No, you'll have to have a crystal sync motor", then what about the audio recorder? Will I have to find a crystal sync audio recorder or are digital audio recorders reliable enough?

One last Crystal Sync question: A while back someone on these forums, Matt Phillips I believe, was talking about the fact that even with a crystal sync motor and a digital field audio recorder you'll be in trouble if you telecine your film to NTSC. Is that true? If so, is there a way around it?

Thanks again.
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#4 Nick Norton

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:21 PM

Now. Is that level of precision really absolutely needed in sync-sound filmmaking? For example, running the NPR camera that I linked to above with the constant speed motor that is not crystal sync, along with an audio field recorder, will I not be able to sync the audio with the footage without it looking bad?

Assuming that the answer is "No, you'll have to have a crystal sync motor", then what about the audio recorder? Will I have to find a crystal sync audio recorder or are digital audio recorders reliable enough?

Thanks again.



Not 100% sure on all of this, but...

Shooting with the constant speed motor will let you have synced audio, but only for a short amount of time. I shot my friend's band performing, and was able to sync up the audio pretty well with my super 8 canon 1014xl-s by simply shooting at 24fps and syncing it with a digital audio recording from an hd camera. However, if i ran the 8mm camera too long... the audio would eventually fall out of sync.

Digital audio recorders record in real time, so as long as you are shooting with a crystal sync motor you should be fine.

Hope this helped-

Nicholas
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#5 John Sprung

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:33 PM

Crystal sync in those days was accurate enough that you'd drift no more than a frame out of sync in half an hour. So, you could shoot a whole 400 ft. mag in reasonable sync. Constant speed DC motors would drift out a frame in just a few seconds. AC motors that run off the building's power would be a lot better than that, good for maybe half a minute or more.

To see something shot on NPR's, look at the "Woodstock" rock concert documentary.



-- J.S.
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