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So, is nobody going to mention Monstro :-)


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#1 Keith Walters

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 09:22 PM

From Jim Jannard yesterday on Reduser:

"RED Digital Cinema announces the development of "Monstro", the Mysterium® sensor of the future. "Monstro" is the sensor that that removes all limitations in current sensor technology. It is expected to arrive the end of 2010.

We fully understand that our customers want resolution, maximum speed, incredible dynamic range, and low light capability. "Monstro" represents the final frontier in the digital vs. film struggle."

The boys on Reduser are already going at it hammer and tongs as though it is a real product. :lol:

There is no need for any more resolution for the moment, the only real issue is dynamic range, (which is really at the heart of all the colour depth issues and so on that people conduct endless hand-waving arguments about).

The RED also desperately needs real-time full-resolution 2K/1920 x 1080 out, (you know workflow, workflow, WORKFLOW) but they seem to throw a hissy fit over there every time someone brings that up.

I suppose this is one of the major things that gets people offside with the RED camp; none of the Red-heads who keep waffling about the REDs "4K" capabilities are likely to ever be in a position to make any real use of it, considering that even big-budget film originated movies mostly only use a 2K DI.

The real answer is to provide every possible output configuration that it is possible to provide. The D-21 even gives you composite PAL/NTSC and S-video out.

(And if you are going to fly into print here to point out that you can't imagine why anybody would want that, it simply indicates your level of industry experience :lol: )
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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 01:50 AM

I just wonder who comes up with these silly names. Sounds like a Godzilla rip-off...
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#3 Glen Alexander

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 07:47 AM

From Jim Jannard yesterday on Reduser:

"RED Digital Cinema announces the development of "Monstro", the Mysterium® sensor of the future. "Monstro" is the sensor that that removes all limitations in current sensor technology. It is expected to arrive the end of 2010.

We fully understand that our customers want resolution, maximum speed, incredible dynamic range, and low light capability. "Monstro" represents the final frontier in the digital vs. film struggle."


Reminds me of Scotty from Star Trek, Patron Saint of Engineers, "Captain, I canna change the laws of physics.."

Even Arthur C. Clarke would say, "There's NO f__k_n' way." :lol:
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#4 Glen Alexander

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 07:52 AM

Sony will come out with something better and cheaper by the time the sat file from ProE or Inventor from JJ is done.

Are Sony and PV still collaborating?

Edited by Glen Alexander, 05 July 2008 - 07:52 AM.

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#5 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 03:02 PM

I just wonder who comes up with these silly names. Sounds like a Godzilla rip-off...


Wasn't it the whale in 'Pinnochio'?
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 04:48 PM

I do believe it was the whale. . .
There's a fun though. . . being eaten by a camera.
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#7 Mitch Gross

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 04:48 PM

No one mentioned it because there is nothing to talk about yet.
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#8 Dan Goulder

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 05:15 PM

No one mentioned it because there is nothing to talk about yet.

Well, that hasn't stopped anyone before...
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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 06:34 PM

Well, that hasn't stopped anyone before...


Hi,

Well I thought there was going to be an upgrade X sensor before that. I personally would like to see a stable RED one camera before people get excited about future sensors. I include both hardware and software issues in that statement, just so there is no confusion!

Stephen
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#10 Gary McClurg

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 08:52 PM

Hi,

Well I thought there was going to be an upgrade X sensor before that. I personally would like to see a stable RED one camera before people get excited about future sensors. I include both hardware and software issues in that statement, just so there is no confusion!

Stephen


My thoughts really how can you build a second camera (Scarlett) and then a larger camera (Epic) when your first camera is still in beta... but who knows... I didn't make a ton of money selling sunglasses... so I might not know anything... which could be very true... :lol:

The sad thing is you have to add a disclaimer to every post... I'm still interested in the Red... but I'm waiting till I think its ready... until then... I'll shoot Cine Alta or film... or who knows been toying with the idea of going with an HPX 500...

I've moved to a smaller market and who knows might try and do some TV spots... but its hard considering that some clients always say... well the TV studio shoots it for free... :lol:

Edited by Gary McClurg, 09 July 2008 - 08:56 PM.

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#11 Gary McClurg

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 09:02 PM

Tried to add this but couldn't in an edit...


And actually I've been wanting to check out the camera... been invited twice... but when I push for a date... its never happened..

Again... I'm interested in the camera... all I'm interested in the moment is 1080p... 35mm dof... different frame rates... I hear it can ramp... cool I love ramping shots... at the moment I'm not interested in 2k or 4k or spending $100,000 to edit with it... be happy just bringing into FCP easily.. not doing 50 things.. now if I had a larger feature... yeah... but in a way I like just turning out these small little features... sometimes its nice to have less bosses around...

Edited by Gary McClurg, 09 July 2008 - 09:04 PM.

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#12 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 05:31 AM

Hi,

Well I thought there was going to be an upgrade X sensor before that. I personally would like to see a stable RED one camera before people get excited about future sensors. I include both hardware and software issues in that statement, just so there is no confusion!

Stephen

Wise said Stephen. Even though we all know Jim is a "Monstro" on (finding out next plots for) marketing affairs... :D
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#13 Luke Haywood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 06:29 AM

Hi,

Well I thought there was going to be an upgrade X sensor before that. I personally would like to see a stable RED one camera before people get excited about future sensors. I include both hardware and software issues in that statement, just so there is no confusion!

Stephen

Exactly 44 minutes elapsed between the time JJ announced that Build 16 Ver 3.1.8 was available for download, and the first (of many) aggrieved RED owner posted to claim it was worse than 3.1.5!
That must surely qualify for some sort of record:-)
Although I begin to wonder if these are actually hardware problems that are getting blamed on the software.
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#14 Drew Mazanec

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 11:55 AM

Has Red released ANY specs at all about the Monstro sensor? I know they released the name of their newest sensor, when it would be released, that Epic will have a free upgrade, and the Red One will have an upgrade path as well. Has any real information been released?
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#15 John Sprung

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:50 PM

My thoughts really how can you build a second camera (Scarlett) and then a larger camera (Epic) when your first camera is still in beta... but who knows... I didn't make a ton of money selling sunglasses...

Actually, the business model to look at is computers and software, rather than sunglasses. Red is a camera built by computer guys. It's SOP to release the next version before you have all the bugs out of what you're selling now. We've reached the point where there wouldn't be any software at all if it had to be perfect before it was released.




-- J.S.
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#16 DJ Joofa

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 02:27 PM

We've reached the point where there wouldn't be any software at all if it had to be perfect before it was released.


True, though stability has to be factored in.

Plan 9 is a much more powerful operating system than Linux, and is from some of the same guys who developed Unix and gave us the wonderful C language. However, the market is held by Linux, which is a hodgepodge mess in relative comparison. Llinux just happened at the right instance and being free just took over (though I think Plan 9 is also free).

Just goes to show that perfection is not the required thing -- just rise a little / marginally over the current bar and have a good price point, and there you go. However, some stability is important, and many times the customers prefer the trade off between stability and more features.
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#17 Gary McClurg

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 04:50 PM

Actually, the business model to look at is computers and software, rather than sunglasses. Red is a camera built by computer guys. It's SOP to release the next version before you have all the bugs out of what you're selling now. We've reached the point where there wouldn't be any software at all if it had to be perfect before it was released.




-- J.S.



True... I guess what I was meaning... maybe it came across maybe it didn't... but hey if the guy can make tons of money selling sunglasses... he might just know a little more about business than me... :lol:

But you're right about the computer angle... had an old friend who did the actually building of computers... he'd spend $1m on a piece of equipment... then six months later it'd be outdated...
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#18 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:14 PM

Sometimes I wonder whether this incredible world-revolutionising, filmmaking-democratising RED pipeline is just a dream or a speculative bubble... the marketing of this company and its stakeholders has become so self-indulgent, I start to wonder if this won't end in tears sooner rather than later. They should focus on righting their first series product in order to ship a consistently finished device instead of having mindmapping sessions about what they will bring to this world in the future.

But as has been said by John, the increasing ICT-fication of professional motion picture gear seems to disable this mindset that was once normal in the industry.

Still: a friend recently compared Jim Jannard to Steve Jobs, and Apple with RED. I would personally say that RED is the opposite of Apple in more ways than not. But that's an entirely different battlefield thread in " High Definition Video > Red" ;) .

Let's be prepared for the next monstrous marketing platitude, soon in a mailbox near you.
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#19 Mike Brennan

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 03:18 PM

For some large screen applications I think we could do with more pixels. If you look at a RED grab 1:1 on a 24 inch 1920x1080 display it is softer than a HD grab at 1:1.

I like the idea of getting teased at what is around the corner but REDs history is one of a series of corners and diversions before reaching the destination so actually planning on future concepts is as risky as banking on errr banks:o


Sony may bring out a product that is higher quality but I seriously doubt it will be cheaper unless it comes from the consumer division.
The Sony consumer division caught Sony broadcast on the hope when they made semi pro DV cameras so it has happened before.

John S is correct, look at the computer model not pro broadcast cameras.

The notion that development is so fast that the RED products will never be fully developed and bug free is worrying for craft cameramen and DPs who want to maintain standards.


Mike Brennan
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#20 Keith Walters

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 05:36 AM

True... I guess what I was meaning... maybe it came across maybe it didn't... but hey if the guy can make tons of money selling sunglasses... he might just know a little more about business than me... :lol:

Apart from the stereotype of Actors always wearing sunglasses (which originally was to cover up the red eyes early silent actors used to suffer from the UV from unshielded brute arcs), I'm not sure what eyewear manufacture and film-related electronics have in common, (or how experience in the manufacture of sunglasses can be successfully leveraged toward the successful manufacture of bleeding edge digital equipment).

Still, I'll be interested to see what sort of worldwide service network RED eventually set up, which is something I do happen to know quite a lot about :lol:

There is so much profit margin with "Brand" sunglasses, if they break, you can easily afford to just give the occasional customer a new pair, and there's not too much that can go wrong with them anyway.

Somehow I don't see the same thing happening with video cameras.
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