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#1 John Hoffler

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 01:12 PM

Hey all,

Quick question regarding S8 cameras. I'm a noob when it comes to S8, someone who is tired of digital! I have been checking around at Flea Markets and the like, and have found some retailers online that sell some items.

Some of the cameras that most intrigue me are in the $150-$400 range and then I looked up the Bealieu 5008 and got this listing on ebay... (p.s. I DO NOT buy off of ebay, this is just reference)

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=270252788412

why is this camera around the $950 mark? is there something that makes it a step above the rest?
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#2 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 02:25 PM

why is this camera around the $950 mark? is there something that makes it a step above the rest?


The 5008 is a great camera compared to the vast majority of the S8 cameras made. It is NOT however the best S8 camera made. I think that price is exceptionally high considering other alternative cameras out there. Beaulieus, you will find, are extremely overpriced usually. They are somewhat considered an "iconic" camera. The most ridiculous priced camera outside of the Beaulieu 4008/5008/6008/7008/9008 is the Leicina Special. This camera is overrated because: 1) It is very loud if you want sync sound work 2) It is currently not able to crystal sync through the film group 3) It doesn't do 24fps, it does 25fps like the Nizo Professional (this is only a prob if you're in the States), and 4) the ergonomics of this camera are not very good for handheld work. I could mention an extra negative 5) that it doesn't take 200ft mags/catridges but then my Super 8 brothers here would make fun of me for still holding out hope for those to come back...but darnit, I'm still hoping!

Honestly, if you don't want to spend a bundle but still get a good camera, here is my short list of cameras that tend to be cheaper but are absolutely wonderful cameras:

-Nikon R10
-Minolta D-12
-Chinon 200/12XL
-Elmo 1012S-XL (I own one personally and I love it!)
-Nizo S 801 (This one I rank over the S 800 Pro. mainly because it's cheaper and does 24fps)

Here are the better midrange cameras if you want to spend a little more than the last list (Although I think the cheaper camera list is actually better, but that's just IMHO.)

-Canon 814XL-S
-Canon 1014XL-S (if you like more bulk than the 814XL-S)
-Nizo 6080 (this one has had some issues according to some, but it's VERY quiet)

Here are the expensive cameras that may/may not be worth your money...all have interchangable lenses though:

-Beaulieu 4008 (various editions ZMII, etc.)
-Beaulieu 5008
-Leicina Special

Here is the "yeah right" cameras that make you decide to switch to 16mm instead of paying the ridiclous prices sellers charge:

-Beaulieu 6008
-Beaulieu 7008
-Beaulieu 9008

I hope this post helps you in your quest for a good Super 8.
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#3 John Hoffler

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 02:33 PM

thanks, that helps a lot!

I thought that camera was ridiculously overpriced...

I was seriously considering the 1012S. Is there anywhere your recommend getting one from. There doesn't seem to be a truly reliable vendor online, through Google searches.
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#4 Josh Allen

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 02:44 PM

Being a newbie myself when I first asked about buying cameras here it was sugested to go to http://www.super8camera-shop.com/shop/ they seem to be a very good service as long as you don't mind having your stuff shipped in. They test and service everything which you don't get from most places/people online. In fact I am pretty sure this is where Matthew got his 1012 from.

Here is a link to his post on them as well http://www.cinematog...showtopic=31691
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#5 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 02:46 PM

thanks, that helps a lot!

I thought that camera was ridiculously overpriced...

I was seriously considering the 1012S. Is there anywhere your recommend getting one from. There doesn't seem to be a truly reliable vendor online, through Google searches.


Well, you realize that buying from other online sources than eBay, you're going to pay more. For instance, I got my 1012S-XL from Super 8 cameras in Germany. I was very pleased and he got it to me as quick as can be expected. Of course it cost me $280 including shipping. Two weeks later I saw some USA seller on eBay selling 2 of these cameras for less than $100. He claimes they worked great but who knows right? I'm not sad that I paid what I did. I would easily have spent more to get this camera. I did notice one American vendor online who is reputable selling the Elmo for $450. I will get you the link...

www.duallcamera.com

Ahh, I see here that the Elmo is out of stock...oh well, might be worth perusing their other stock as they have a lot.
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#6 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 02:47 PM

In fact I am pretty sure this is where Matthew got his 1012 from.


Yes, I listed mine before I notices your post...lol Now I sound silly. I did indeed order from there.
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#7 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 04:26 PM

[quote name='Matthew W. Phillips' date='Jul 6 2008, 03:25 PM' post='240728']
3) It doesn't do 24fps, it does 25fps like the Nizo Professional (this is only a prob if you're in the States),

That is not true. I have a Nizo Professional US Model that shoots 24fps ! ;)
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#8 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 04:40 PM

That is not true. I have a Nizo Professional US Model that shoots 24fps ! ;)


I've never heard of such a thing...could you post a pic so I can see???
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#9 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:56 AM

I've never heard of such a thing...could you post a pic so I can see???

Here it is ! :rolleyes:

Edited by Jean Beaudoin, 07 July 2008 - 06:58 AM.

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#10 Nate Downes

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:29 AM

I also recommend the Chinon Pacific 200/8XL and 200/12XL as well. Chinon is a brand name often overlooked despite having a quality image, so is easy to aquire for a reasonable pricetag.
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#11 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 11:43 AM

Here it is ! :rolleyes:


Very funny! Actually, I looked online for one and still haven't seen what you're talking about. There is a Nizo S 800 that is 24fps but the actual Nizo Professional edition of the S 800 doesn't seem to do 24fps. I have looked at databases of cameras, resellers, eBay, everything and cannot find a 24fps edition that actual says "Nizo Professional" on it. I see a lot of sheisty eBay sellers marketing the regular S 800 as the Nizo Professional. They are similar, but not the same. Please post a pic that shows both the top of the lens that says Nizo Professional AND the knob with the frame rates.
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#12 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 01:53 PM

is there something that makes it a step above the rest?


That particular E-bay seller ALWAYS list items at 2 - 3 times the going rate.

The 5008s is a good camera because of the C-mount lenses and it has pretty good registration for a super 8 camera.

The prices in the super 8 world all a mess right now. Keep in mind that what ever you purchase, you will most likely want to invest a $200 - $300 for a clean and lube and minor repairs.

Good Luck.
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#13 Jim Carlile

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:05 AM

For newbies or those who don't want to hunt around I would strongly recommend buying equipment at either Super 8 Arena or the Super 8 Camera Shop. They are both in Germany but specialize in foreign sales.

I noticed the other day that Super 8 Arena has some nice things in the $250 range. In the U.S. there is also George Gal in NYC who repairs most good movie cameras and sells rebuilt ones at some steep prices but it's an option.
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#14 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:20 AM

Very funny! Actually, I looked online for one and still haven't seen what you're talking about. There is a Nizo S 800 that is 24fps but the actual Nizo Professional edition of the S 800 doesn't seem to do 24fps. I have looked at databases of cameras, resellers, eBay, everything and cannot find a 24fps edition that actual says "Nizo Professional" on it. I see a lot of sheisty eBay sellers marketing the regular S 800 as the Nizo Professional. They are similar, but not the same. Please post a pic that shows both the top of the lens that says Nizo Professional AND the knob with the frame rates.


Here is a combo for you.
The Pro and the S800 are two different cameras in many ways:
lens, auto B, +1, Pilotone generator, etc...
I have shot a documentary for the CITIZENS project (Citizen Benjamin) using this camera.
http://www.cinecitizens.com/
Using sync sound without any problems (other than syncing it!), film was transfered at 24fps at Spectra. :)

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#15 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:25 AM

The higher prices that Beaulieu cameras command are not entirely made up of a hot air premium for camera brand snobs, as is occassionally suggested.

Beaulieu was the only Super 8 camera manufacturer that took a professional approach to designing their cameras in context of the other 16/35/65 formats. The inclusion of an interchangeable lens option, a multitude of C-Mount to XYT-Mount adapters, the mirror reflex system, a bright and high-magnification viewfinder, plus variable shutters down to 0°, should not be left aside as if these are pointless gimmicks.

Few people would touch a 16 or 35 camera that did not have these features, and as a matter of fact, few cameras are as feature-lade for cine-film than Beaulieu cameras. Now, I am the first to say that the 5008 isn't the best camera Beaulieu made (here and here), and that the Lexan casings of the Beaulieu 6/7/9008-series are more unstable than solid.

But to just dismiss the Beaulieu cameras as expensive playboy gear and that you are able to get similar or identical professional optical and mechnical quality from some/any low-market , is unduly unfair. If you are or have to be a price-conscious filmmaker, than there a many alternative options. But generally, the premium (as long as it's not four digit) for well-kept Beaulieu cameras have some background reason.

We just bought a rare Beaulieu 4008 ZM II "Black Edition" with the 6-80 (!) for 200 Euros in almost mint condition with full equipment off eBay.de, so look out for good offers.
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#16 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 12:10 PM

Few people would touch a 16 or 35 camera that did not have these features, and as a matter of fact, few cameras are as feature-lade for cine-film than Beaulieu cameras.


Michael, have you seen the hoard of cheapo filmmakers who have used the Krasnogorsk-3 16mm cameras? I personally would use ANY of the top Super8 cameras I previously mentioned than the K-3. Yes the Beaulieu has many features but I have to wonder...why not make the cameras a little quieter? If the Beaulieu 4008 had a quieter motor + a more modern battery structure, It would be the hands down best Super8 camera ever.

For the record, I wanted to provide some educational advice if anyone owns an Elmo 1012S-XL:

If you don't want to use millions of batteries on a shoot, get a 100' extension cord and get yourself a universal AC adapter kit for it and plug it in the bottom of the handle. I discovered that it takes 9V negative polarity settings. I notices the motor stays more constant with an actual AC power supply.
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#17 Will Montgomery

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:21 PM

Michael, have you seen the hoard of cheapo filmmakers who have used the Krasnogorsk-3 16mm cameras? I personally would use ANY of the top Super8 cameras,

Really? I've had amazing results with my K3. Especially with an inexpensive Pentax Super Takumar 35mm still camera lens thrown on there. Hate winding the thing, but other than that it's great for the money.
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#18 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 02:24 PM

Really? I've had amazing results with my K3. Especially with an inexpensive Pentax Super Takumar 35mm still camera lens thrown on there. Hate winding the thing, but other than that it's great for the money.


Never heard of anyone using a 35mm lens witht he K-3...interesting. The main reason I said what I did about the K-3 is because 1) I hate the fact that there is no 400' magazine option. If I'm going to only get less than 3 minutes of footage, I'd rather have the extremely fast loading capability of the Super 8 cartridge. 2) The K-3 comes with no motor at all. The idea of winding up before each takes is like wha? 3) The K-3 is sooo noisy, you'd have to put it under 3 inch thick lead to masked the sound in an indoor dialog shot. Unless you use scratch track, there is NO way to shoot dialog with this thing. 4) The K-3 often can come DOA out of the box new. I've heard many bad stories about "new" cameras that didn't even work...sortof like the Soviet SCUD missile. :lol:
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#19 Will Montgomery

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:20 PM

Never heard of anyone using a 35mm lens witht he K-3...interesting. The main reason I said what I did about the K-3 is because 1) I hate the fact that there is no 400' magazine option. If I'm going to only get less than 3 minutes of footage, I'd rather have the extremely fast loading capability of the Super 8 cartridge. 2) The K-3 comes with no motor at all. The idea of winding up before each takes is like wha? 3) The K-3 is sooo noisy, you'd have to put it under 3 inch thick lead to masked the sound in an indoor dialog shot. Unless you use scratch track, there is NO way to shoot dialog with this thing. 4) The K-3 often can come DOA out of the box new. I've heard many bad stories about "new" cameras that didn't even work...sortof like the Soviet SCUD missile. :lol:

All valid reasons, but then, it is 16mm and you can't compare the picture quality. Even with negative stocks. Super 8 is great and has gotten so much better with the Vision stocks, but it's still not 16mm. I just love Super 8 for it's own look.

1) I've never used the 400' magazine on my Scoopic although I have it... too cumbersome. That need would be determined by shooting style and subject.
2) Winding does suck, this is the main reason I don't use it very much any more.
3) I've never had a quiet Super 8 camera so it's hard to compare. The K3 sounds like an amplified sewing machine for sure.
4) I'm sure quality control sucks, but I was lucky.
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#20 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:51 PM

All valid reasons, but then, it is 16mm and you can't compare the picture quality. Even with negative stocks. Super 8 is great and has gotten so much better with the Vision stocks, but it's still not 16mm. I just love Super 8 for it's own look.


I agree, but the funny part is (not always but) a lot of people who buy the K-3 to be cheap also end up getting cheapo telecines that are crappy and actually look quite inferior compared to Super 8 footage with good telecine.

I know Robert Rodriguez said not to throw money at a problem because then you would keep the hose going but the same is true in reverse. You can start getting so low ball with stuff that it affects every part of your production.

Will, I'm not saying you do this. I know you do high quality work, so don't assume I'm targetted you with this. I'm more geared towards the digital turn film shooters who finally see the light that they need to shoot film for the results they want but they don't research enough and end up buying a K-3 and think they will be Spielbeirgo or whatever the cheaper mexican equivalent was on The Simpsons. :lol:
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