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Super 16 Scans


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#1 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:01 AM

Hello,

I'm in the process of shopping around for Super 16 scans to my hard drive
(1920 by 1080P @ 24fps). I'm located in the Midwest, so I think I'm aware of the options around here.

Where are Super 16 people getting theirs done (in the US)? Although I'd like the highest quality, money is a consideration (sound familiar?). All of the footage at this point will be black and white. It will be viewed at least for now on HDTV (16:9).

Thanks in advance,
Tom
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#2 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:42 AM

Tom, from what i've worked on on S16mm we either wind up going to tape (DVCPROHD) or to drive ProRes which is a "lossless" format. But, as all of these projects are going to live on DVD of some form, or are for local broadcast/web etc (basically not for theaters) this is the default workflow.
For anything going to be shown on a large screen, I'd recommend a transferr to DVCam, an offline edit, and then a scan/reconform @ 1080 or 2K to DPX files right before you shoot out to an HDCamSR Master and Film.

I'm sure others will chime in here as well.
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#3 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 01:05 PM

I agree with Adrian. Depending on how much footage you have, it may be smart to best-light transfer your footage first to SD (A-punched for timecode sync'ing). After you have identified your "hero" takes, then you can spend more to do a scene-to-scene HD scan of only the takes you want, based on your A-punched SD footage. It usually makes more sense to pay for a scene-to-scene SD xfer first and pick your hero takes -which you will spend more time color correcting on HD- than scanning everything on a reel to scene-to-scene HD. A Spirit 2K with DaVinci color correction software (what I use) usually goes for a mere $900 x hour of labor time, not footage time.

As some forum members would say (cough, cough): I am going to tell you how much I pay for it, but I can't tell you who or where these people are, so it is up to you to call around and "build a relationship with them to get the same price". :(

I pay $450 x labor hr for a Spirit 2k DaVinci suite.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 11 July 2008 - 01:08 PM.

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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 02:10 PM

As some forum members would say (cough, cough): I am going to tell you how much I pay for it, but I can't tell you who or where these people are, so it is up to you to call around and "build a relationship with them to get the same price". :(


Saul, you're just so bitter. ;)

Tom,

I'd talk to the folks at Filmworkers/Astro in Chicago. Last I heard they will do Super 16 to hard drive. I also agree with Adrian, do a best light SD DVCAM transfer of all your footage and then only transfer the shots you are going to use. The cost of supervised Spirit/DaVinci time adds up REAL QUICK!!

Best,
-Tim
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#5 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 02:33 PM

Saul, you're just so bitter. ;)

-Tim


LOL!

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 11 July 2008 - 02:34 PM.

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#6 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 05:41 PM

Saul:

I pay $400 an hour for a Millennium II 2k with DaVinci Resolv so... :P


Good for you!

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 11 July 2008 - 05:41 PM.

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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 09:49 AM

Wow, the HD route here in Philadelphia w/o me working my magic, is $500-600/hr. IF you're a student it's $300/hr to HD! ($250/hr to SD).
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#8 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 10:31 AM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info. I was actually hoping on getting some names of places with a Spirit and doing the leg work/price shopping from there. Since many have gone down this road here, I thought I could cut through the searches and separate the ones that have a Spirit from those that send the film to a place with a Spirit.
Unfortunately, it seems when prices are given first, the names don't always follow. So if you know of places (like Bono) , by all means let me know. After some research it seems like with 1,000 feet it doesn't save much by going the SD (timecode), then HD route.

Long live the name droppers!

Thanks again,
Tom
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#9 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 10:43 AM

Shooters Post And Transfer, Philadelphia
Technicolor NY
NFL Films all come to the top of my mind for the east coast.
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#10 Matt Ely

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 10:40 AM

I use & Transfer in Dallas, TX. Terry Hall, 214.615.8240. Matt.
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#11 Kyle Waszkelewicz

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:21 PM

PostWorks New York has a handful of spirits.
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#12 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:27 PM

Hey guys, on the spirit, while we're talking of it, have you noticed them a bit too noisy at times? memory seems to recall the Ranks looked a lot better? Or i could just be remembering wrong.
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#13 Will Montgomery

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 06:59 PM

I use & Transfer in Dallas, TX. Terry Hall, 214.615.8240. Matt.

Can't recommend these guys enough. Spirit with all the bells available here. They can go directly to Final Cut Pro in any codec you want. ProResHD is a great quality one that can save space and therefore time in copying files.

Hey guys, on the spirit, while we're talking of it, have you noticed them a bit too noisy at times? memory seems to recall the Ranks looked a lot better? Or i could just be remembering wrong.

Spirits and Shadows are different from Ranks or even Millenium machines. The Millenium uses analog tubes at some point in the signal chain which some people think will warm up the signal. There are just so many variables on how a Spirit is setup and used and all the extra equipment that it would be hard make a general rule but several colorists I know have said that Spirits can look a little more "digital" than a Millenuim what ever that means.
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#14 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:33 PM

I think that's exactly what I was reffing to. It just "feels," different to me. ohh the old CRT days!
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#15 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 09:24 AM

It's funny how the sound recording world and film world have so much in common. I've done a fair share of audio recording and some people will pay top dollar for tube equipment (including me). The reason is, and here is another subjective term, that it sounds "warmer." Not that purely digital sounds (or looks) bad, it is actually quite "clean," but as in anything else, what kind of look (sound) are you going for.
I think I prematurely limited my research to the Spirit. Since I have an older lens, the ANGENIEUX 17-68 (with myACL) and am shooting black and white almost all of the time, the Millenium may in fact be a better fit for me. So I have a few more calls to make.

Thanks again. This post has been a great one for me and I appreciate each response.

Tom

Edited by Tom Hepburn, 14 July 2008 - 09:25 AM.

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#16 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 09:38 AM

Anytime tom.
if you'd looking for SD I know a nice Rank 'round here.
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#17 Will Montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 10:04 AM

It's funny how the sound recording world and film world have so much in common. I've done a fair share of audio recording and some people will pay top dollar for tube equipment (including me). The reason is, and here is another subjective term, that it sounds "warmer." Not that purely digital sounds (or looks) bad, it is actually quite "clean," but as in anything else, what kind of look (sound) are you going for.

It's all about distortion; everything distorts, however analog tubes "distort" in an orderly, almost pleasing fashion. Artifacts created by analog tubes are in octaves and 3rds (or something like that) while digital signal distortion sounds completely random. It's been almost 20 years since my audio engineering days at U of Miami but that's what I remember. I assume similar characteristics hold true in video.

Don't let anyone scare you away from a Spirit, they are truely amazing machines and it really boils down to the colorist at that level.
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