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Bummer. Film getting torn?


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#1 Robert Brown

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:03 AM

So, I ran into what seems to be a serious problem tonight while shooting..

I pop in a new film cartridge into my Nizo Professional, film several shots and then take the film out to put a different kind..

But when I did, my film looked like this: Bummer.jpg


So I thought maybe it was a faulty roll, so I re-shot everything on a different roll. SAME THING HAPPENED.

Luckily, I thought, I brought my 136XL too. And guess what, it did the same thing. The Nizo Professional did this a few days ago but thought it was a fluke. Looks like it wasn't. And the 136XL had NEVER done this before..

Then, I popped in some Tri-X into the back-up camera and nothing like this happened.

What does this mean? How do I go on shooting after the film is, what looks like to be cut.

I tried pulling the film back into place and keep shooting, but that didn't work.


Very scared I blew most of the shots tonight.
Does anyone have any ideas? This sucks!

Thanks
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#2 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 07:29 AM

Hmm, very strange. The film is split in half? Like that? Vision2 500 T (7218) is a pretty thick material, and Pro8mm packages short-ends into Super 8 cartridges. There have been issues with Pro8mm material before over the years - many hateful threads attest to this in this board.

In decades of shooting Super 8, I have never had any camera achieving or being capable of slicing the film in part like that, which is a clear diagonal cut. Frankly, not even with shooting Super 16 did such a thing ever happen. I experienced it with a incorrectly-loaded Arriflex 35, but those are different powers at work ( :) ). Normally, the perforation row suffers from the pull-down claw being unable to advance the film because it's stuck. And should the motor have a problem, then it is more likely that the pull-down claw suffers (esp. on Nizo and Beaulieu cameras which are made of a relative "soft" material - nothing wrong with that in principle, BTW, before this is taken up as a bashing reason) from the friction against the sturdy film material rather than the film being split in half like this!

In light of both cameras having this problem with Pro8mm film stocks '18 and both cameras working fine with Tri-X, I think the cause of the problem is more likely situated in the cartridge than in the cameras. If a camera problem IN BOTH pieces at the same moment in time would have occured, than you would live through what Douglas Adams would refer to in H2G2 as "a moment of very very very low probability indeed - and therefore quite interesting".

I have never shot with Pro8mm film stocks and won't, esp. for emulsions being available from Kodak directly (such as your V2-500), so I can only speculate but, frankly, the piece of film sticking out sticking out of the take-up chamber, i.e. its the film's end. So pulling it back up will result in the pull-down claw advancing it downwards again (the film is transported from take-off at top to take-up at bottom, Robert).
So this almost looks like the ending strip of the film, as if the reel itself was cut at the end. Now I have seen third-party carts ending like this regularly: Wittner's reels (E-100) ended exactly looking like this when the cart was shot through, as Wittner did not have (then - now they have it) the SMPTE-compliant EXPOSED-printed ending with the perf & film centre stamp-out that makes the pull-down claw transport empty and some cameras to stop the motor entirely (due to an electric contact in relation to the film stocks' conductivity)

It seems to me that this is just the end of the reel of a Pro8mm-confectioned cartridge.

At what position of the reel (i.e. footage already shot so far) did this occur? If it was seriously below 50 ft / 15m, then they may have short-loaded it! Expect at least 12m or 40 ft of third-party loaded film stock, as a full 50 ft / 15m is not possible due to the thicker material base.

Best wishes,

-Michael
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#3 Tim Terner

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 09:42 AM

Michael, I now promote you to 'Detective Lehnert', Super analysis.
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#4 Robert Brown

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:26 PM

Michael, Thank you so much for the detailed response. I am hoping that you are right, and that WAS just the ending strip of the film. I was not monitoring my film gauge, unfortunately. I just remember taking the cartridge out, thinking I'd have shot half way or 3/4 into it, compared to prior experiences with other film types. Maybe like you said, it was short loaded. Today, i will shoot a test roll of B&W on the Nizo Professional, and see what happens. I hope it was the film stock and not my cameras. I'll run my tests and let you know what happens.

Thanks again Michael.

Like Tim said, 'Detective Lehnert', Super Analysis.
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#5 Giles Perkins

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:21 PM

Its a cart end - that's the way Pro8mm do it - I have one here that looks identical. Just make sure you dont loose the end!
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#6 Matthew Buick

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:37 PM

The same thing happened to me, I pushed it back through and bingo. :)
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#7 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:08 AM

Michael, I now promote you to 'Detective Lehnert', Super analysis.


You are too kind, folks, because frankly, Giles and Matthew spend just one sentence on "finding the murderer" while I rewrote the whole Sherlock Holmes serial from scratch to come to the same simple conclusion. Typically me... :rolleyes: .

Hmm, I guess everyone noticed that I really don't work with the Vigeant family business at all because of their fearsome reputation, but frankly, I will be in LA in August and might drop in to make some first hand experience, maybe even buy more than one cartridge... :D Wish me luck with that one... B)

Cheers,

-Michael
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