Jump to content


Photo

macro lens


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Christian Tanner

Christian Tanner
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Student
  • Zurich, London

Posted 15 July 2008 - 05:14 PM

hey guys!

i'm shooting a viral for a watch maker. inevitably... there's going to be some shots of a watch and its components. (the larger the parts will show on screen, the better).
i was researching and found some kind of periscope probe lens system that would do the trick - unfortunately the rather huge price doesn't make it an obtion for this productions budget.

i'm shooting with hd and a depth of field adapter. pl mount.

so here's the question:
what's the 35mm lens i should go for to get that kind of shot? i was thinking about a 200mm but i'm worried that it's:
a.) not that feasible for that kind of "table top photography" and...
b.) it won't get me that "super close up" i'm looking for. (i can't test the 200mm at the moment by the way - so i had to make up my oppinion by researching on the web only).

is there a macro lens for those kind of shots? (one that is aproximately within the price range of a "normal" lens - if you know what i mean...).
anyone had a similar problem in the past?

any help and/or input greatly appreciated - as always!
cary
  • 0

#2 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Z├╝rich, Switzerland

Posted 19 July 2008 - 11:41 AM

What about getting a macro lens for the hd-camera? In the needed macro-range DOF will be ultra
narrow, even without the mini35 or what ever system you use.

If you use a camera with built in lens plus the redrock system, simply use the achromat macro adapter of the red rock system, without the groundglass via pl lens etc...


cheers, Bernhard
  • 0

#3 Maya Bankovic

Maya Bankovic
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Toronto, Canada

Posted 19 July 2008 - 05:32 PM

I'm looking into macro lenses for something similar so I'll keep you posted on those findings, but for now I thought I'd mention that I worked for a DP who was a huge fan of diopters (+2 for example) for exactly the type of shots you're doing (he'd use it on a pocket watch, table top stuff, etc.)

Maya
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 02:21 AM

Hi,

I shoot an awful lot of watches & I use a Mitchell with bellows. You can use extention tubes or bellows with the 35mm adapter. Diopters direct on the video lens will also do the trick. I doubt a periscope will help you much.

Stephen
  • 0

#5 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:18 AM

You can use extention tubes or bellows with the 35mm adapter. Diopters direct on the video lens will also do the trick.


I'd try that too. Just keep in mind you'll need an awful lot of light. There is a nice macro lens in Arri Std the Killfit Macro Zoomatar 90/2.8. Maybe you could get a hold of a PL converted one or use an adapter.

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#6 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:37 AM

I'd try that too. Just keep in mind you'll need an awful lot of light.
Cheers, Dave


Hi David,

I use 150w Dedo lights with 200 asa film on 35mm, it's enough for me, I often have to get out the ND's!
FWIW at 1:1 with extention tubes your losing 2 stops.

Stephen
  • 0

#7 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:59 AM

I use 150w Dedo lights with 200 asa film on 35mm, it's enough for me, I often have to get out the ND's! FWIW at 1:1 with extention tubes your losing 2 stops.


Of course you are right Stephen! 1:1 isn't that much. I was thinking more along the lines of greater magnification and thus, longer bellows extensions. Just out of curiosity, do you spot the Dedos in and what's the distance you use? And what stop does that give you?

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#8 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 07:28 AM

Of course you are right Stephen! 1:1 isn't that much. I was thinking more along the lines of greater magnification and thus, longer bellows extensions. Just out of curiosity, do you spot the Dedos in and what's the distance you use? And what stop does that give you?

Cheers, Dave


Hi Dave,

The Dedos would be at various levels from mid to spot & fairly close (60cm). I usually light macro to T4 but an T8 would easily be possible by spotting more or comming closer with the lights. (I am allowing for 2 stops of bellows with those figures) My stop for shooting will be anywhere from T1.4 -T4 with T2.8 used the most.

Best wishes,

Stephen
  • 0

#9 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 09:19 AM

Hi Dave,

Here is a set up, all dedo's are bounced.

Stephen

Attached Images

  • DSC_0098s.JPG
  • DSC_0099s.JPG

  • 0

#10 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 July 2008 - 10:12 AM

Hi Stephen!

Thanks, that's one nice setup you have there!

Regards, Dave
  • 0

#11 Tim Terner

Tim Terner
  • Sustaining Members
  • 340 posts
  • Producer
  • Prague, CZ

Posted 20 July 2008 - 10:23 AM

Hi Stephen!

Thanks, that's one nice setup you have there!

Regards, Dave


pleased you can fathom it out Dave :o
  • 0

#12 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 July 2008 - 02:51 PM

Hehe.;) That's years of training! My grandpa loved to shoot stills macro stuff. So we had some really elaborate setups using mirrors and such at my grandparents week-end home in the mountains. I inherited a really nice 19mm/2.8 Ultra-Micro-Nikkor which can be used to obtain 40x magnification on bellows!

Here's one on ebay: 19mm/2.8 Ultra Micro. Mine is in a much better shape though!

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#13 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:22 PM

pleased you can fathom it out Dave :o


Hi Tim,

My lighting often confuses people as I usually have a minimiun of 4 different lighting passes, one for the Strap, Case, Face & a matte. (the record is 19 IIRC) From memory this was a low budget shoot so there was only a little bit of post help.
I recently worked with a high level DOP shooting watches, he lit using 15K of light! He was amused that I could tell him a stop without looking at a meter, he would always look at his meter and then go with my suggestion. He was using large soft sources the result was rather boring & flat IMHO.
By using the Mitchell with a bellows I can use Nikon still camera lenses which are small in size or my Ultracam Zeiss Superspeeds. The camera dates from 1944 is rock steady and hapilly runs upto 100 FPS. With the computer controlled shutter angle I can vary the exposure between passes.

Stephen
  • 0

#14 John Brawley

John Brawley
  • Sustaining Members
  • 834 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Atlanta Georgia

Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:15 PM

hey guys!

i'm shooting a viral for a watch maker. inevitably... there's going to be some shots of a watch and its components. (the larger the parts will show on screen, the better).
i was researching and found some kind of periscope probe lens system that would do the trick - unfortunately the rather huge price doesn't make it an obtion for this productions budget.

i'm shooting with hd and a depth of field adapter. pl mount.

so here's the question:
what's the 35mm lens i should go for to get that kind of shot? i was thinking about a 200mm but i'm worried that it's:
a.) not that feasible for that kind of "table top photography" and...
b.) it won't get me that "super close up" i'm looking for. (i can't test the 200mm at the moment by the way - so i had to make up my oppinion by researching on the web only).



I would think the 200mm won't be any good. It won't focus close enough to allow you to get the image magnification you want.

Try diopters on primes or getting a macro lens. Arri make a nice set of macros that will allow very close focussing. Extension tubes work too (with primes), but you need to be able to get them for the mount you're working with. I suspect PL will be your mount ?

jb
  • 0

#15 Saul Rodgar

Saul Rodgar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1682 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 20 July 2008 - 10:55 PM

I think it depends on the 200mm lens too. I have a 28-300mm F2.8 Sigma 35mm lens that gives me a pretty nice tight macro on my 16mm ACL at F5.6 with a Nikon mount adaptor. A 2/3' lens camera without a Pro 35 or equivalent would give you the same close up range theoretically, if you could mount this lens directly on it. Even with a 35mm adaptor, you would get a pretty good macro on it, but you lose a couple of stops on the lens either way.

I use a set of bellows w/ a 50 mm F1.4 Pentax 35mm prime lens for the really macro stuff on my ACL though.
  • 0

#16 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:28 PM

I would think the 200mm won't be any good. It won't focus close enough to allow you to get the image magnification you want.

Try diopters on primes or getting a macro lens. Arri make a nice set of macros that will allow very close focussing. Extension tubes work too (with primes), but you need to be able to get them for the mount you're working with. I suspect PL will be your mount ?

jb


Hi,

Many adapters have Nikon mounts so extention tubes are cheap. The Arri 200mm macro goes to 1:1.

Stephen
  • 0

#17 Paul Bruening

Paul Bruening

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2858 posts
  • Producer
  • Oxford, Mississippi

Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:57 PM

What's that beautiful piece of machinery you got there, Stephen? Hmmm, could it be a Fries?

That trick of shooting through a hole in a reflector is my favorite glamor photo trick of all time. If you use a rounded reflector it leaves the most curious and spectral, white dot right in the subject's pupils on "look at camera" shots. I love it.
  • 0

#18 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:23 AM

My lighting often confuses people as I usually have a minimiun of 4 different lighting passes, one for the Strap, Case, Face & a matte. (the record is 19 IIRC) From memory this was a low budget shoot so there was only a little bit of post help.


Hi Stephen!

That's curious, since that's a thing I am very familiar with from my 3D jobs. Do you do the compositing yourself or supervise it?

Regards, Dave
  • 0

#19 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 21 July 2008 - 07:41 AM

Hi Stephen!

That's curious, since that's a thing I am very familiar with from my 3D jobs. Do you do the compositing yourself or supervise it?

Regards, Dave


Hi Dave,

I don't do the compositing myself, sometimes I supervise but I am not that keen to spend days on end sitting in the dark!

Stephen
  • 0

#20 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 21 July 2008 - 07:43 AM

What's that beautiful piece of machinery you got there, Stephen? Hmmm, could it be a Fries?


Hi Paul,

It's a Fries AF35R conversion to a GC.

Stephen
  • 0


Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

The Slider

CineLab

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Opal

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Ritter Battery