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RED Overheating - still a big problem?


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#1 Joe Taylor

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:03 PM

I am expecting to take delivery of a RED ONE in mid-September. Since the camera's release there has be much said about its electronics overheating. I have been following this problem and other reliability issues throughout the year with some worry.

Back in early June I called RED and was told by somebody in the office that the overheating problem has be taken care of.

Now a month-and-a-half later it sounds like problem does indeed still plague a number of cameras out there and some are saying that solution will be addressed and fixed with the release of the EPIC.

If that's the case, where does that leave current owners with faulty, unreliable RED ONEs? Upgrading to an EPIC is not option for me.

I wish a responsible representative from RED could jump in and provide us with a NO BS answer to this problem. IF the RED ONE's overheating lies with faulty electronics with no inexpensive remedy, I'd like to know before I take the plunge in September.

Thank You
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#2 Gary McClurg

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:39 PM

Now a month-and-a-half later it sounds like problem does indeed still plague a number of cameras out there and some are saying that solution will be addressed and fixed with the release of the EPIC.

If that's the case, where does that leave current owners with faulty, unreliable RED ONEs? Upgrading to an EPIC is not option for me.

I wish a responsible representative from RED could jump in and provide us with a NO BS answer to this problem. IF the RED ONE's overheating lies with faulty electronics with no inexpensive remedy, I'd like to know before I take the plunge in September.

Thank You


A representative from Red should jump in here... it doesn't make sense... buy a more expensive camera to fix the problems of a less expensive camera....

That way there won't be any misunderstandings of what is happening... good or bad...

Edited by Gary McClurg, 20 July 2008 - 12:40 PM.

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#3 Glen Alexander

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:22 PM

bolt on the biggest heat sinks you find, add peltier's if you want to go nuts

most likely wherever the processor/ram is located.

Edited by Glen Alexander, 20 July 2008 - 01:25 PM.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:39 PM

All digital cameras are heat generators, so keeping them cool is an issue. I didn't have problems with my RED's on Manure in terms of overheating, but we were indoors 95% of the time (though on hot stages). Our few outdoor shots made under the blazing sun seemed to work fine, but I think it's important to put some shade over the camera, a flag or something.

Element Technica is making a holder for the top of the camera (where it gets hottest) to put a Cool Pack on it, with a little pad to absorb any moisture.
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#5 Gary McClurg

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:00 PM

Element Technica is making a holder for the top of the camera (where it gets hottest) to put a Cool Pack on it, with a little pad to absorb any moisture.


I would think that this is Red's job... not an outside vendor...
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:04 PM

I would think that this is Red's job... not an outside vendor...


3rd party accessories for movie cameras are not unusual... but certainly Element Technica is doing a lot of innovative accessories work for the RED ONE, to the point where I wonder if Jim Jannard should just buy the company...
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#7 Gary McClurg

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:25 PM

3rd party accessories for movie cameras are not unusual... but certainly Element Technica is doing a lot of innovative accessories work for the RED ONE, to the point where I wonder if Jim Jannard should just buy the company...


Makes sense to me... about buying out the company... forgot to add... keep the guys working on new stuff... but still if I bought a Red... I wouldn't want to spend extra money with a 3rd party to keep the camera cool...

Edited by Gary McClurg, 20 July 2008 - 03:28 PM.

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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:33 PM

A representative from Red should jump in here...


Hi Gary,

Don't hold you breath on that one :lol:

Stephen
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#9 Gary McClurg

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:36 PM

Hi Gary,

Don't hold you breath on that one :lol:

Stephen


I was going to joke... they're here... his name is ????... but then ????... might he might not see the humor in it... or Red... so I would have two parties after me...

:lol:

Edited by Gary McClurg, 20 July 2008 - 03:37 PM.

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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:36 PM

... but still if I bought a Red... I wouldn't want to spend extra money with a 3rd party to keep the camera cool...


If you threw a white towel or a silver blanket over a film mag, or a flag on a c-stand, to keep it cool in the sun... wouldn't that be a 3rd party accessory? ;)

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether you bought an accessory from the camera manufacturer or from a 3rd party, as long as it works and is available. People don't always buy an ARRI mattebox for their ARRI camera.
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#11 Stephen Williams

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:43 PM

If you threw a white towel or a silver blanket over a film mag, or a flag on a c-stand, to keep it cool in the sun... wouldn't that be a 3rd party accessory? ;)

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether you bought an accessory from the camera manufacturer or from a 3rd party, as long as it works and is available. People don't always buy an ARRI mattebox for their ARRI camera.


Hi David,

I get a gut feeling it's more of an issue with Red than (older) film cameras. I have never used an Arricam but don't here about many problems. Clearly one does not leave 35mm film in the sun for 12 hours, but a roll does not last much more than 20 minuted even shooting 2 perf.

Stephen
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#12 Gary McClurg

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:43 PM

If you threw a white towel or a silver blanket over a film mag, or a flag on a c-stand, to keep it cool in the sun... wouldn't that be a 3rd party accessory? ;)

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether you bought an accessory from the camera manufacturer or from a 3rd party, as long as it works and is available. People don't always buy an ARRI mattebox for their ARRI camera.


How bout I put it this way... would you buy a car with out a raditor... kinda of different than which matte box to go with... :lol:


I was going to answer back with a different smiley face... that's what this site needs more smiley faces...
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#13 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:54 PM

How bout I put it this way... would you buy a car with out a raditor... kinda of different than which matte box to go with... :lol:


I wouldn't say that's an apt metaphor, consider people have shot entire features on the RED without needing an ice pack on the camera, so it's hardly a vital piece of basic equipment without which the package is not complete. I'd even go as far as saying that a mattebox is even more of a basic piece of necessary equipment that an ice pack holder.

Selling a car without a radiator... that would be like RED selling the camera without making batteries for it, or without a way to view the image, or without internal cooling fans.

Sure, the camera can overheat. I've had Sony F900's breakdown in humid and warm rooms. I've also had 35mm movie cameras stop working in cold environments. It's a design issue that needs to be addressed of course. The ARRI D20 has no cooling fans, it's just a giant radiator grill acting as a passive heat transfer device. Which is great except that with a camera that porous, you wonder how you can seal it up in a dust storm scene...
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#14 Stephen Williams

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 04:03 PM

I that would be like RED selling the camera without making batteries for it, or without a way to view the image,


Hi David,

I am sure Red must have been the first manufacture in the last 40 years to sell cameras without being able to deliver a viewfinder at the same time. I doubt that the customers of Sony or Arri would have accepted that. Of course many of the Red customers would not buy an Arri or Sony camera.

Stephen
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 04:24 PM

Although in the past few years, we have seen more variation in viewfinders available for HD cameras, rather than just the stock 1" b&w CRT monitor that came with every F900 and Varicam. And some of these viewfinders were designed and made by outside companies.

It's becoming a bit of the Wild West out there, and there are a lot of new companies making gear compared to a few years ago. The days when everything on your camera was made by the original camera company may be coming to an end. Now we'll have these Frankenstein creations assembled from bits and pieces from different vendors. We'll buy a viewfinder from "X" and an onboard monitor from "Y" and a lens from "Z" and a battery from whatever follows "Z"...
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#16 John Brawley

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 04:44 PM

I am expecting to take delivery of a RED ONE in mid-September. Since the camera's release there has be much said about its electronics overheating. I have been following this problem and other reliability issues throughout the year with some worry.

Back in early June I called RED and was told by somebody in the office that the overheating problem has be taken care of.

I wish a responsible representative from RED could jump in and provide us with a NO BS answer to this problem. IF the RED ONE's overheating lies with faulty electronics with no inexpensive remedy, I'd like to know before I take the plunge in September.



I would say that overheating isn't really an issue with the camera as long as you take the same precaution's you would take with a film or any other camera. The camera pulls a lot of power and it does get warm. The thermal management seems to be pretty good now. You'll hear the fan turning on and it's speed is determined by the temp. I haven't had it ever turn off on me mid-shoot for thermal reasons...

In fact back when their were still only 100 camera's out there, I shoot some test footage with #64 at christmas time on a very very hot afternoon. I actually expected it to turn off as it was above 40 deg C (that's well over 100 Deg F). The body was so hot I could barely touch it. But I also kept the body shaded, and not covered in any way. I didn't have cool packs or anything... The camera kept on working for several hours without shutting down.

I've done several shoots with RED now (and don't own one). As long as you don't leave it baking in the sun you should be fine, unless you are perhaps in very extreme conditions with high humidity, temperature and low airflow (indoors)..

jb
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#17 Max Jacoby

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:17 PM

Clearly one does not leave 35mm film in the sun for 12 hours, but a roll does not last much more than 20 minuted even shooting 2 perf.

If you leave a film camera in the sun, it will get too hot to touch way before it stops working because of overheating.
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#18 Joe Taylor

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:41 PM

Thank you for all of the replies. I'm feeling a little better about the overheating issue. I have no problem with wrapping a space blanket over the camera. I do it quite often with my film cameras.

My worry has been a camera overheating when working in a tolerable production environment. There is no way I would feel comfortable purchasing and hiring out this camera if it is going to blow its radiator on a typical job. I have an bigger problem buying 3rd party equipment, such as a heat sink, for a product that should otherwise operate reliably in a tolerable environment.

I

Edited by Joe Taylor, 20 July 2008 - 05:45 PM.

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#19 Glen Alexander

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:50 PM

heatsinks are cheap, if you have to shoot, you have to adapt, improvise, overcome
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#20 Joe Taylor

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 06:07 PM

heatsinks are cheap, if you have to shoot, you have to adapt, improvise, overcome



When I'm spending nearly $20,000 for a camera that's supposed revolutionize the industry and render "obsolescence obsolute" it had better damn well come with it's own built-in heat sink it needs one.

If a guy has to tape or wire some clumsy copper eyesore to his camera so it won't overcook... you can take it to the bank that this thing will be obsolete in a big hurry!
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