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Kowa Prominar 8-Z size


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#1 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 01:35 PM

Got one recently. Anyone know for sure the size of the rear thread of this lens? I'd like to attach it to a 4008 ZMII 6-66 Schneider lens. Was told to use a series 7 to 62mm adapter, would this work?
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#2 Christian Appelt

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 01:54 PM

I don't remember what thread type it was, but certainly nonstandard. many years ago, I tried to get an adapter ring for it and was told it would have to be hand made at high cost.

IIRC there used to be a special rotating adapter to keep the lens on axis if the camera lens had a rotating front which is the case with most Super 8 cameras. Doesn't your Schneider zoom lens rotate too?

I would try The Widescreen Centre, they used to distribute the Kowa 8Z and may know another solution.

The Widescreen Centre UK
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#3 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 12:11 PM

Thanks for the tip, I'll email them to see if they have any info.
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#4 Damien Dubois

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 06:17 PM

Hi,

I've just received a kowa 8-z (serial 448XX) won on ebay too. It's pretty obvious that the rear filter thread is nonstandard :(
I really want to shoot films with it soon but I can't screw it on my cameras.

>>> Did you get some more info from widescreencenter UK about the perfect step up/down ring size we should get to use it with nowadays threads?

super8man tells on his website that it's a serie VI thread. That will not be easy to find an adaptor as far as serie 6 is a neolithic size :)

I was thinking about mounting the camera & the lens on a rod system with a "Canon Tripod Mount Ring AII" with foam to keep the kowa tight in place... Do you have some other ideas about fixing it?

Waiting to reading from you soon

regards

Damian
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#5 Damien Dubois

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:08 PM

Series V ? filters 1-3/16″ (~30mm) ? retaining thread 1-1/4″ (~32mm)
Series VI ? filters 1-5/8″ (~41mm) ? retaining thread 1-3/4″ (~44mm)
Series VII ? filters 2″ (~51mm) ? retaining thread 2-1/8″ (~54mm)

I think it's a 52mm filter thread or a series VII one. We have to try both of them.

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#6 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 11:51 AM

Got one recently. Anyone know for sure the size of the rear thread of this lens? I'd like to attach it to a 4008 ZMII 6-66 Schneider lens. Was told to use a series 7 to 62mm adapter, would this work?


I wouldn't attach it direct to the zoom lens. It's a hassle because it will turn as soon as you focus the camera lens, then if you focus the 8z the cameralens will turn and get out of focus.

The weight of the 8Z plus the lenght of the Schneider won't do any good to the weak c-mount of the camera.

The rear thread is non standard. I searched in several shops etc. for a step ring but there was nothing. A solution would be to glue a standard ring on it

I use the 8z with a rod system. So it isn't connected mechanically to the cameralens and both can be focused hassle free.

By the way, prime lenses work best for this set up.

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 15 August 2008 - 11:53 AM.

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#7 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 12:38 AM

Thanks Bernhard, that's great info there. What prime size do you recommend?
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#8 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 03:34 AM

Thanks Bernhard, that's great info there. What prime size do you recommend?


What ever focal length you need or have, there is a limit before vignetting on the wide side. In S8 you can go as wide as 10mm (the cinegon on the leicina special), in Regular 16mm the limit is 20mm, but you get barrel distortion with both.

the super8man has good info about step rings etc...
http://home.pacbell..../super8_39.html
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#9 Damien Dubois

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:49 AM

Hello,

I have a Kowa 16-H anamorphic adaptor and I bought a small Nizo 561 with the 49mm lens filter thread to fit with.
I order a step up ring on ebay which converts 49mm to Serie VII.
it definitly does not fit the back thread of the Kowa 8-Z. the serie VII is a bit wider.

serie VII is 54mm and the Kowa thread is 50mm / 2"

I am looking for a 2" thread or something else to connect the lens to the Kowa.

I know that the thread filter of some telescope are near 2" maybe I should take a look at this but it's not really easy to find.


I found something in the microscope area which is a "off-the-shelf adaptor ring".The tube size is 2" wide (exacly the size of the metal ring of the Kowa) and the other side is 52mm e.g. But it costs way too much for me... (50 to 100$).
Posted Image


So, If someone found the perfect filter thread type to connect the kowa 8-Z on my camera that would really help me.

Thanks
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#10 andy oliver

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 06:25 PM

Hi, its been a long time since i owned one, but i think the rear thread was something like 50.8 mm, i know i never found any step ring to fit the damm thing....
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#11 Damien Dubois

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 12:12 PM

I sent an email to Kowa Japan and that's what they replied to me. The mail is really kind and helpful.

Dear Damien-san,

Very sorry for our delay in replying.

This is Kowa Company, Ltd., Head Office in Japan. My name is Tammotsu Kitai (Mr.) who works for our Electronics & Optics Div., and I'm a Sales Manager of the Int'l Sales Dept..

Thank you for the purchase of our products of very old model. I checked with our Factory engineer and found that the thread of this Prominar Anamorphic 16 - H (???) is of M50 x 0.75 ( Diameter x Pitch ). I believe you will be successful now.

Kind and best regards

Tamotsu Kitai
Int'l Sales Dept.
Electronics & Optics Div.
Kowa Company, Ltd.
Tokyo - Japan


So here it is ! The thread is M50 x 0.75 ( Diameter x Pitch )
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#12 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 06:41 PM

I sent an email to Kowa Japan and that's what they replied to me. The mail is really kind and helpful.



So here it is ! The thread is M50 x 0.75 ( Diameter x Pitch )


Damien, that really is fantastic of you to have gone to such length to find this information. Muchas gracias!

Maybe we can put our heads together and come up with some method of attaching this lens. I'd like to use with a Beaulieu 4008 and an R16. I was leaning towards using the Kowa with something like a 25mm prime since the front glass element will certainly be small enough, and to avoid vignetting and to keep it more lightweight.
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#13 Damien Dubois

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 12:11 PM

That could be really easy to make a perfectly suited adaptor. The easiest way to screw this Kowa lens is to use a Standard step up ring (5$).
i.e 49mm >>> 52mm step up ring with a custom made ring screwed inside the 52mm cavity.
This custom ring must be 3-4mm thick and must be 52mm pich 0.75 in the outter circumference and must be 50mm 0.75 pitch inner circumference.
This is really easy to do with a lathe or a mill.
If someone knows a machine shop or a person who could do this let us know. Maybe we could order a batch of 10 rings if people are interested to decrease the price.
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#14 Bengt Freden

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 03:26 PM

Hi Damien,

This is interesting - I would be interested in stepping in on a joint order if you can find someone who is willing to make those adapter rings. I have recently bought a 46.5mm to Series VII adapter ring on eBay, which I will try to fit to the Angénieux 1.9/8-64mm zoom on the Beaulieu 4008 - it seems to be usable from around 15 - 17mm focal length and up.
However, I must agree with Bernard that prime lenses probably are a much better start as they are simpler lens constructions and less prone to distorsion problems found in zooms, particularly at the wide end (barrel distorsion) and at the extreme telephoto end (pin-cushion distorsion). So, a Schneider-Leicina Macro-Cinegon 1:8/10mm would probably be ideal, also because it is so small in the front filter thread (39mm).

I recently bought both the Kowa 16-H 2X (or 8-Z in Europe) with the unusual M50 back thread and also the Bell & Howell all-black Kowa 2X version (same 70mm lens), which apparently has a back thread of about the same thread as a Series VII adapter ring (about 54mm?). Michael Nyberg has some very interesting close-ups of his step- and rotating split-ring combos on his site - here is a Series VII to 52/52 to 62mm combo (©photo by the same):

Posted Image

After a bit of web browsing on anamorphic lenses, I found some very interesting adapter rings at 'FFR-Film' in Idstein, Germany, for the Kowa 2X lens (and others, like the East German-made Rectimascope lens, which is larger), for example very sophisticated projector mounts, for both the Beaulieu 708 EL Stereo and the Elmo ST- or GS-1200 sound projectors. They look heavy-duty and sturdy enough. There is also an interesting CS barrel adapter for the Kowa 16-H/8-Z, for 52mm, 55mm, and 58mm lenses. They are expensive (at EUR 45,00) but they look really solid to me - web link: http://www.ffr-film....amp;language=de

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Cheers from Stockholm,
Bengt F ;)
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#15 Bengt Freden

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 04:12 PM

Hi all,

I searched eBay.com for step-down rings and, guess what, I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/...idZp1638Q2em124

A 52mm camera lens to 50mm filter thread black step-down metal (aluminium) ring, for $1.00 + shipping! I just bought one and there are over 80 of them left. Enough for everybody with a Kowa H-16/8-Z Prominar 70mm anamorphic lens . . .

I cross my fingers and hope that this might be the right one - if this is the correct 0.75mm pitch thread on the inside, I can fit the Kowa H-16 Prominar (with the chrome barrel) to any of my manual Nikon F Nikkor AiS SLR still camera lenses, for which I have a C-mount adapter to the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II (or Beaulieu R-16). I am thinking that an 18mm, a 20mm, or a 24mm Nikkor wideangle lens might be just right, if there is no 'tunneling' in Super8mm. Stepping down from 52 to 49 and smaller, or up to 55 or 58 is a piece-of-cake and adds very little to the distance between the A-lens and camera lens. The Kowa will have to be supported by a lens bracket and rods, though, or else the C-mount in the Beaulieu will bend out of focus.

Now, we´ll just have to see when the little ring arrives from Hong Kong . . .

Cheers,
Bengt F ;)
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#16 Damien Dubois

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:58 PM

Hello Bengt F,

Thanks a lot for your tips. I bought a 52mm >>> 50mm step down ring too. Hope it will arrive from china :)
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#17 Bengt Freden

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:07 PM

Hello Bengt F,

Thanks a lot for your tips. I bought a 52mm >>> 50mm step down ring too. Hope it will arrive from china :)

Hi Damien,
That´s great - we will try it out and post our experiences. I pray it will fit. There are options for larger filter threads, too: For those wanting to experiment with the Bell & Howell Kowa 2X lens and the Beaulieu- or Leicina Special-Schneider Optivaron 1.8/6-66mm, Beaulieu-Schneider 1.4/6-70mm or Angénieux T1.4/6-80mm zoom lenses, there is this 62mm step-down to Series VII adapter ring: http://cgi.ebay.com/...Q2em118Q2el1247

For lenses of this large front filter thread, it will probably result in some 'tunneling' or edge cut-off at the wider focal length settings, but I know that 'super8man' Michael Nyberg has tried it on his Bell & Howell MS45, which has the same size - scroll down this page for the grey B&H camera. He uses the zoom between 15-20mm focal length for a 'tunnel-free' image: http://home.pacbell..../super8_39.html

Scope is the way to go!
Cheers,
Bengt F ;)

Edited by Bengt Freden, 30 January 2009 - 12:09 PM.

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#18 Damien Dubois

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 12:48 PM

Hi Bengt,

Did you received your 52mm-50mm step down ring ?

The guys from the ebay store send me an email today to advice me the item is missing at their store...
That's a shame, I paid it, and the even sent me an email while ago to tell me "your item has been shipped".

That's what they say in the email:

Dear sir, I am sorry to tell you that we don't have this item(250357835906) in stock now,and it will take a long time to get the items from our supplier.Sorry for the inconvenience we bring to you.We can refund the money to you.Sorry again. Best Regards June


That's unbelievable...


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#19 Bengt Freden

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:31 PM

Hi Damien,

The exact same thing happened to me - I got an e-mail just the other day informing me that "it will take a long time to get the item from our supplier" and today I got a PayPal refund of $4.99. In Asia, it is a deadly sin to loose face in front of a customer . . . I think this might be some kind of evasive or easy-to-grab explanation for an error or a misprint in the listing.
I searched the seller "DSLR Baby´s" web store in China and it seems that they have stopped selling this item, because I cannot find it now: http://stores.shop.e...Q_sidZ802295041

Anyway, I just sent an e-mail this "June" in China and asked them if they could order it from their supplier. If this ring does exist (I am beginning to wonder if it does . . .), then I am prepared to wait a while for it. I told them so. It would be nice to have a really thin 52mm to 50mm step down ring for the Kowa lens, that doesn´t add so much to the distance between the lenses.

I am sorry that I led you astray but I had no way of knowing that this would be the disappointing result. However, I will let you know if this ring can be found, from this supplier or from another.

'Til then,
Take care,
Bengt ;)
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#20 Damien Dubois

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 06:23 PM

Did you get your money back from the store ? I don't...

I found someone else on ebay who sells a lot of 50 52mm-50mm step down rings.

I asked him to buy only one piece. He told me that it will be 20$ each s/h inc for North America.
If you want, I can send you the mail via PM.

Hope it helps.
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