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Inquiry on Post workflow.


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#1 Ronney Ross

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 08:37 PM

Please excuse me if this issue has been covered but only having shot small amounts of reversal and just begun recently dealing with negative stocks and telecine. I wonder where in the post work flow does the footage get that clean crisp looking we see on t.v. shows or in Music Videos where all of the scratches and spots get take out of the image.

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#2 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:28 PM

This should probably be in the telecine forum.

If you have a lot of scratches and spots (dirt/dust) then you need a cleaner loading environment and your mags and gate area need to be checked/serviced.

When you still get trouble, add-on hardware/software that labs use with their telecine process will remove what you are talking about.

When you say "clean/crisp" you could be talking about a lot of other things here too. Generally you get good results from film to video conversions with: 1) a good machine, like a Spirit, and 2) a good colorist.

Number 2 is the most important and every piece of commercial footage you have seen has had someone managing this often misunderstood area of post. If you try to bypass this you are better off not shooting film if you want a polished look of any kind.
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#3 Ronney Ross

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:41 PM

Thanks Vincent.

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#4 K Borowski

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 11:16 PM

Unfortunately, dust and scratches are an unavoidable part of the film workflow. They've been with us since the beginning and they'll be with us until the end.

Fortunately since the dawn of filmmaking, there have been steps taken in combatting scratches before, during, and after shooting that are usually quite effective. Standard procedure these days involves testing each camera body and magazine with leader, junk film, or raw stock before the shoot to make sure none of them will be a source of scratches.

Then, during the shoot, the procedure that you should be using involves "checking the gate" after each shot, literally retracting the shutter, and looking at the frame of film to make sure there isn't a hair stuck at any edge of the frame and also to make sure there isn't a scratch running down the film emulsion. This protects you from the nastiest, most uncorrectable form of scratch, the emulsion scratch that can't be corrected during printing/scanning. Of course, you can't really see any of the base scratches that pop up.

After processing, you can eliminate base scratches in photo-chemical printing through the use of the wet-gate procedure. You won't make any EPA friends using this approach, but it works. Digitally, digital ice can work wonders at automatically detecting and eliminating all but the nastiest base scratches, though it usually can't do anything with an emulsion scratch.

Dust, is something you are going to get, no matter what, clean room environment you'll still get some. It's everywhere. You can clean the film before transfer, and some will still slip through. Digital ice can eliminate it, again usually only on the base, only partially on the emulsion.


Hope this helps.
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#5 John Brawley

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 11:33 PM

I wonder where in the post work flow does the footage get that clean crisp looking we see on t.v. shows or in Music Videos where all of the scratches and spots get take out of the image.



If you have lots of scratches and dust then the problem is not film. Although it is susceptible, there is no reason for it to be a major problem unless you aren't maintaining proper work practices. I can honestly count on one hand the number of time I've had scratches on shoots in the past 15 years and all of them were solvable without a re-shoot. Again, with dust, if you are meticulous with your loading environment and camera cleanliness, then your really shouldn't have dust problems. Is the dust white or black ?

Scratches are usually caused my mis-loading, not setting correct loop size, not using gear that has been scratch checked. If you're shooting reversal you may be seeing scratches because it's being passed through projectors, steenbecks or other editing equipment which is introducing scratches to your material. With the correct film handling processes there should be no scratches at all and the occasional sparkle at the beginning and end of rolls.

For the rare occasions that scratches or dust happen, there are techniques for restoring this footage, but it can be fairly labour intensive.

jb
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#6 Ronney Ross

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 06:15 AM

I will remember to always check the gate while shooting remember to ask for digital ice of wetgate. My main thing was trying to learn if there was something I didn't know about final corrections of the image because I would even see some behind the scenes or deleted footage of the big budget stuff and it would be grain with lots of scratches compared to final version but I got a clipped of some super 8 stuff from a couple of years ago finally put up to show that shows how my image have came out:

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=nJ0XjJs939M
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#7 John Sprung

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 05:02 PM

.... where all of the scratches and spots get take out of the image.

In our post work flow, it's done to the color timed master, right after color correction, using an MTI box:

http://www.mathtech.com/index.html





-- J.S.
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