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advices for my first Red One shooting


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#1 ricardo de gracia

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:11 AM

please... any basic help or tips on my firs spot with RED ONE???

it's a very siomple shooting, but I haven't had any contact with the red one. and my usual client has bought it and wanna use it...

no time for me for a workshop...

THANKS IN ADVANCE
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:35 AM

please... any basic help or tips on my firs spot with RED ONE???

it's a very siomple shooting, but I haven't had any contact with the red one. and my usual client has bought it and wanna use it...

no time for me for a workshop...

THANKS IN ADVANCE


Hi,

What build are you using? Basically you have to test everything you want to do.

Stephen
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#3 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:08 AM

I'd download the manual from RED for the build you're using and test with the people who going to be doing the post.
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#4 Igor Ridanovic

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:14 PM

Post is indeed very important but you need to ensure you're getting good images on the set. You should have someone (DIT) help you with data wrangling on an Intel based Mac. They can also run shots through REDalert or jut pull up camera proxies so you can see what's really in the shot because what you see coming out of the camera video output is not always what you get recorded.
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#5 Justin Hayward

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:45 PM

What's the ASA equivalent of Red with the standard "flattest" setup (whatever that is)?
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 03:06 AM

What's the ASA equivalent of Red with the standard "flattest" setup (whatever that is)?


320 is a good starting point.
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#7 Christopher Bell

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 12:33 PM

Carefully compare your exposure in Red Space with the the Raw view. I have found Red Space to look significantly brighter than the Raw. The result can be underexposure (noise) if you are not careful.

Test exposures, and review in Red Cine. What you see is not necessarily what you get.
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#8 Eirik Tyrihjel

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:50 PM

What's the ASA equivalent of Red with the standard "flattest" setup (whatever that is)?


I recommend you set ASA to 320 using daylight, or 200 using tungsten.

And like hey said, test anything you want to do (camera settings wise) befor you are out there in the heat.

Good luck!
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#9 Jaron Berman

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 07:20 PM

With this camera as all others, TEST! With this camera more than ANY other, TEST EVERY SITUATION! The problem is that not all RED's are alike, even with the same build. When our production shut down due to RED codec errors, we spoke to a number of other shows using RED in similar situations with the same buid.... and some had the same problems, some didn't. There is no telling whether or not the camera you get will work or not, regardless of firmware, so TEST TEST TEST, every possible lighting situation you can. Our camera failed outdoors, which is now really the only situation I hear of these things failing still. With contrasty lighting, movement, and detailed backgrounds (brick, etc...), build 15 and 16.? both shut down on us, spitting out codec errors until the situation got more front-lit and less contrasty.

I'm definitely not anti-RED, as it may sound...I'm certainly a LOT more hesitant to use the camera based on the last experience with it... but I URGE you to test every possible situation you can before heading into the field with the camera. It's not finished, so don't assume it will work until you test. Good luck, hopefully it works flawlessly for you because the images it's capable of producing are quite nice.
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#10 Oli Soravia

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 01:46 PM

With this camera as all others, TEST! With this camera more than ANY other, TEST EVERY SITUATION! The problem is that not all RED's are alike, even with the same build. When our production shut down due to RED codec errors, we spoke to a number of other shows using RED in similar situations with the same buid.... and some had the same problems, some didn't. There is no telling whether or not the camera you get will work or not, regardless of firmware, so TEST TEST TEST, every possible lighting situation you can. Our camera failed outdoors, which is now really the only situation I hear of these things failing still. With contrasty lighting, movement, and detailed backgrounds (brick, etc...), build 15 and 16.? both shut down on us, spitting out codec errors until the situation got more front-lit and less contrasty.

I'm definitely not anti-RED, as it may sound...I'm certainly a LOT more hesitant to use the camera based on the last experience with it... but I URGE you to test every possible situation you can before heading into the field with the camera. It's not finished, so don't assume it will work until you test. Good luck, hopefully it works flawlessly for you because the images it's capable of producing are quite nice.


Jaron is absolutly right! I`m just doing a picture for the big screen with RED, which means that a 4K DI will be done and lasered on masternegativ. I`ve tested a build 16 which I use for the entiry shot - and: my camera has definitly an ISO of 100 and an exposure range of 4 stops! Means: my white won`t be exposed higher than + 2 stops, my blacks not more than - 2, still having enough detail in order to prevent any noise on both sides of the curve. Digital doesn`t react like film emulsion. It falls off directly after having clipped the limits. So I have to go for a very sad flat RAW which looks terrible and my lighting is not really exciting. But I have to, to get best results in the end. At least for the big screen where every error is visible, if you do a tv-job, you have a bit more freedom and can correct the RAW errors in post and they won`t be really seen on the small screen unless they are really heavy. I`ve read a lot in the redforum and other users tell from better experiences, maybe, these are my experiences. To avoid any problems, test. GOOD LUCK. Oli
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#11 Serge Teulon

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:56 AM

I'm in the midst of researching with a director that wants to shoot with a Red. This is due to where the funding is coming from.....
I haven't had the pleasure of working with it but it seems from all the info on here that the camera itself can generate quite a lot of extra work and stress on set.
I must state that I don't want to start a debate about Red, like in many other topics. I'm just merely reading the info and writing my thoughts.
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#12 Matthew Rogers

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 03:22 PM

I'm in the midst of researching with a director that wants to shoot with a Red. This is due to where the funding is coming from.....
I haven't had the pleasure of working with it but it seems from all the info on here that the camera itself can generate quite a lot of extra work and stress on set.
I must state that I don't want to start a debate about Red, like in many other topics. I'm just merely reading the info and writing my thoughts.


All the shoots that I've gone on so far have gone really smoothly. The only downtime we've had was swapping batteries, but that wasn't a big deal because the image would come up within about 5-10 seconds of powering on (granted, there was a logo in the middle of the screen, but that's supposed to be fixed in the next build.) Heck, during the last shoot the DP sat down with the DIT and color corrected some stills, then printed them off on a photo printer for the director to have. You can't do that easily with any other HD camera and all you can get off film is a B&W thermal print.

I recently shot a short film a month ago with no problems and am shooting 2 more shorts the next two weekends (the first starts tomorrow with some helo shots, and then car shots with jib of a truck and with a hostess tray.) We'll see if I suddenly start having issues, but I don't think I will be (but I've also been researching the camera and it's workflow for over a year, so that helps ALOT!)

Matthew
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#13 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:31 PM

All the shoots that I've gone on so far have gone really smoothly. The only downtime we've had was swapping batteries, but that wasn't a big deal because the image would come up within about 5-10 seconds of powering on (granted, there was a logo in the middle of the screen, but that's supposed to be fixed in the next build.)


That's a lot shorter than the time on the build 15 camera we were using last week, it took over a minute to boot up after a battery change. It wasn't an issue on a short drama, but it was more than what I recall to be the 35 seconds that RED said for later builds, although I suppose these figures could vary from camera to camera.

My impression was that an area to be careful about was the downloading and backups. We used CF cards to avoid any hard drive drop outs and it felt rather like shooting 35mm with 400ft loads.

They used 2:1 rather than 16:9 because of possible codec errors - I assume this was from previous experience.
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#14 Michael Collier

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 06:20 PM

From the last Red shoot I was on (not as DP sadly, though the DP was very very talented and a pleasure to work for) we would use hard drive with out issue all day. The only time we would go for CF was a situation where vibration was expected (shooting from airplanes, card mounts on hostess trays, etc)

Also make sure your tripods are beefy. I was not expecting a camera as heavy as it is. The first AC put it on my shoulder once, and I was very surprised. I was expecting 25 lbs or so, its heavy, so get good sticks.

From what I saw it handles low light pretty well. As I said I wasn't DP or gaffer, so I wasn't taking readings by meter, but it seemed like he was finding exposure with very little light.

As with all digital cameras, underexposure is your friend. You can push shadow detail out easier than with film in post, but pulling highlights gets very difficult (though less difficult with raw compared to a recorded signal that has been placed in a color space) and as always a clip is data lost. Use the on board meters (histogram, waveform, etc)
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#15 Matthew Rogers

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:24 PM

That's a lot shorter than the time on the build 15 camera we were using last week, it took over a minute to boot up after a battery change. It wasn't an issue on a short drama, but it was more than what I recall to be the 35 seconds that RED said for later builds, although I suppose these figures could vary from camera to camera.

My impression was that an area to be careful about was the downloading and backups. We used CF cards to avoid any hard drive drop outs and it felt rather like shooting 35mm with 400ft loads.

They used 2:1 rather than 16:9 because of possible codec errors - I assume this was from previous experience.


I'm sorry, you misunderstood what I said. In build 16 when you press the power button, RED now has it so while the camera is booting, you have an image displayed on the RED LCD, EVF and on HD-SDI/HDMI outputs. You can't record until the camera is finished booting but it's nice for the DP & director to have an image in case they are still framing/lighting. The camera still takes just over a minute to boot, but it seems like a MUCH faster minute since I can see any image already. It also helps for me that I have a dual v-mount adapter that I use. That way I don't have to power down when I switch batteries.

I have yet to have a single drop frame with the hard drive. I've used it hand held and mounted on a jib on the back of my truck driving down the street. From most of what I read it seems like the drives are more lightly to drop frames when you have fine vibrations or loud sounds. The DP of the short that I'm helping shoot this weekend evidently had issues with the drive when shooting army stuff that they were either shooting blanks or live rounds. He said once they moved to the CF cards there were no issues. Of course, the flash drive will solve all these problems!

I would be really tempted to shoot 16:9 this weekend except that we will probably be shooting CF cards since we are using a hostess tray on the side of a car and I rather shoot REDOCE 36 over 28. It'll suck to have basically 3-4 minute runs, but that's what we gotta do!

Matthew
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#16 Stephen Price

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 03:18 AM

In my experience, pushing the Red One past 320 ASA produces a huge amount of noise in blacks, to an unaceptable level, i would recommend never going beyond 320 ASA.

Also, the CMOS chip is Daylight balanced, and i have experienced much noise when balancing and shoting with tungsten. Even though its RAW and should be versitile in post. I have heard people leaving the camera balanced for daylight but using an opticle filter to correct for colour balance.
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#17 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 04:14 AM

I have yet to have a single drop frame with the hard drive. I've used it hand held and mounted on a jib on the back of my truck driving down the street. From most of what I read it seems like the drives are more lightly to drop frames when you have fine vibrations or loud sounds. The DP of the short that I'm helping shoot this weekend evidently had issues with the drive when shooting army stuff that they were either shooting blanks or live rounds. He said once they moved to the CF cards there were no issues. Of course, the flash drive will solve all these problems!


I think our 1st AC was just being conservative in using the CF cards, however, the hard drive did get used once, when all the CF cards had been exposed (there were 8), but were still waiting downloading.

The other thing is that the RED is power hungry, so make sure you have enough batteries.
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#18 Serge Teulon

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 09:47 AM

All in all that sounds quite positive.
It seems its just a case of having CF cards on the ready and not being too rough with it.

Thanks guys!
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#19 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 10:12 AM

All in all that sounds quite positive.
It seems its just a case of having CF cards on the ready and not being too rough with it.

Thanks guys!


If you're using CF cards, make sure you keep the "exposed" cards separate from your "new" cards that you're about to use. You need to have a robust system that you keep in place throughout the shoot.

Something I heard at lunch time today was that sound recordists are concerned about the time code and sync on RED multi camera shoots. It appears to be an issue.
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#20 Serge Teulon

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 12:03 PM

Good advice. Thanks Bryan!

As for the sound guys.....well.....its only sound! :P
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