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#1 David Bradley

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:14 PM

Hey

I want to DI my next s16mm project but I'm a little confused as to how the workflow goes.

I assume that:

- film is telecined into an SD cutting copy
- EDL is exported from NLE for A & B Roll cut
- film is scanned at 2K
- DI is Graded / Tweaked etc
- Printed for theatrical release

Please correct me if any of this is wrong as I really am guessing.

I want to print the DI to 35mm so I can take it to festivals, local theatres etc but I will also need HD/SD copies. Can HD/SD copies come straight from the DI or do I need to fork out for another telecine from the final print?

Basically I was hoping someone could outline the entire workflow.

Cheers

Dave
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:26 PM

Hey

I want to DI my next s16mm project but I'm a little confused as to how the workflow goes.

I assume that:

- film is telecined into an SD cutting copy
- EDL is exported from NLE for A & B Roll cut
- film is scanned at 2K
- DI is Graded / Tweaked etc
- Printed for theatrical release

Please correct me if any of this is wrong as I really am guessing.

I want to print the DI to 35mm so I can take it to festivals, local theatres etc but I will also need HD/SD copies. Can HD/SD copies come straight from the DI or do I need to fork out for another telecine from the final print?

Basically I was hoping someone could outline the entire workflow.

Cheers

Dave


Hi,

There are a no of options, HD Telecine or scanning. HD/SD copies can be made from the DI. You should talk to a no of facility companies as prices & quality vary conciderably.

Stephen
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:29 PM

Generally you wouldn't cut the negative. You'd use the EDL to know what sections of the camera rolls to scan, then you'd create an edited digital master ("conforming" -- sort of like an online session where the EDL is used to assemble an edited version.) You would build in transitional effects (fades & dissolves) and you'd add in any digital effects shots (titles over picture, visual effects, etc.)

This conformed master would then go through a color-correction stage similar to the process of color-correction for a video master, except it would be at 2K (or HD if you decide to use 4:4:4 1080P HDCAM-SR as the intermediate step instead of 2K RGB data.)

The master would go through a digital dust & dirt clean-up step.

It would be recorded to a 35mm internegative using a laser recorder. You'd make a one-light check print for the final set of printer light numbers for the reels and then you'd make your final composite prints (ones with a soundtrack).

The digital master would be used to create any videotape submasters like for HD and SD broadcast. You wouldn't need to do another telecine.

The audio has its own path too.

As I said, you could either scan to 2K RGB data or you could telecine to 4:4:4 1080P HD using HDCAM-SR, which is usually fine for Super-16 and similar to 2K quality.
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#4 Dan Goulder

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:38 PM

As I said, you could either scan to 2K RGB data or you could telecine to 4:4:4 1080P HD using HDCAM-SR, which is usually fine for Super-16 and similar to 2K quality.

David, are you referring specifically to a Super-16 blowup, or do you also feel that HDCAM-SR is similar in quality to 2K where a Super-35 "D.I." is concerned?
Thanks.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:46 PM

David, are you referring specifically to a Super-16 blowup, or do you also feel that HDCAM-SR is similar in quality to 2K where a Super-35 "D.I." is concerned?
Thanks.


Similar but not the same. There are differences in color, compression (HDCAM-SR has a little), noise, etc. that are subtle. Personally I think 2K scans seem more "transparent" or straightforward, more like what's on the original film, than some HDCAM-SR transfers I've seen in a side by side tests, where more can change / go wrong depending on how the transfer is done. My last comparison test saw some noise in the whites on the HDCAM-SR version that wasn't there in the 2K scan, but there is no particular reason why that should have happened. Some of it is due to the nature of the scanner / telecine being used.

I wasn't all that happy with the quality of the HDCAM-SR D.I. that was done for "Assassination of a High School President" for a number of technical reasons. For one thing, it was all done in Rec 709 color space, the original transfer was to linear video, not LOG, etc. The transfer was done for a Sundance HD screening and then I had to use it for the final D.I. because they wouldn't pay to have it retransferred in 2K.
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#6 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 01:42 PM

Hey

I want to DI my next s16mm project but I'm a little confused as to how the workflow goes.

I assume that:

- film is telecined into an SD cutting copy
- EDL is exported from NLE for A & B Roll cut
- film is scanned at 2K
- DI is Graded / Tweaked etc
- Printed for theatrical release

Please correct me if any of this is wrong as I really am guessing.

I want to print the DI to 35mm so I can take it to festivals, local theatres etc but I will also need HD/SD copies. Can HD/SD copies come straight from the DI or do I need to fork out for another telecine from the final print?

Basically I was hoping someone could outline the entire workflow.

Cheers

Dave


Just make sure you ask for A-punch on your negative rolls for SD telecine. This will sync and lock your picture for editing on NTSC so that when you extract your EDL for 24p scan or telecine, it will remain consistent. Otherwise, from the get go it will be a mess and you will have to re-edit manually as opposed to just reconnecting media. And you will have to reverse telecine it as your time base will change from 60i to 24p. Call your lab for more info on this, and how to avoid editing twice.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 06 August 2008 - 01:44 PM.

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#7 Chris Burke

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 05:44 PM

Hey

I want to DI my next s16mm project but I'm a little confused as to how the workflow goes.

I assume that:

- film is telecined into an SD cutting copy
- EDL is exported from NLE for A & B Roll cut
- film is scanned at 2K
- DI is Graded / Tweaked etc
- Printed for theatrical release

Please correct me if any of this is wrong as I really am guessing.

I want to print the DI to 35mm so I can take it to festivals, local theatres etc but I will also need HD/SD copies. Can HD/SD copies come straight from the DI or do I need to fork out for another telecine from the final print?

Basically I was hoping someone could outline the entire workflow.

Cheers

Dave




Depending on how much money you have, I am assuming you want to save as much as you can, going the HDCam SR route as David has suggested is often the most cost effective for S16. When rescanning selects, a lot of the time=money is spent shuttling through the flats looking for your shots. If you do a flat grade to HDCAM SR in the first place of all your footage, then that may be all you will have to do, no rescanning. You will have to conform and grade that footage, but at least you have it already and don't have to pay again to have your film scanned. Also, the least amount of times your negative touches anything, the better. So the idea of scanning once and putting the negative away for safe keeping is a great one. This might not work for your situation, I dunno, but then again it may. Weigh the cost of the SR route. There is the deck rental, which is pricey, but you really can economize here. This way happen in real time or close to it, where as the 2k does not happen in real time or if it does it is a lot more expensive. Then there is the data wrangling charges, because that is someone's time. So you really have to check and see which is best for you. Please share your experience with which path you follow. Good luck.

chris :rolleyes:
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#8 Emmanuel Lariviere

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:50 AM

Hey

I want to DI my next s16mm project but I'm a little confused as to how the workflow goes.

I assume that:

- film is telecined into an SD cutting copy
- EDL is exported from NLE for A & B Roll cut
- film is scanned at 2K
- DI is Graded / Tweaked etc
- Printed for theatrical release

Please correct me if any of this is wrong as I really am guessing.

I want to print the DI to 35mm so I can take it to festivals, local theatres etc but I will also need HD/SD copies. Can HD/SD copies come straight from the DI or do I need to fork out for another telecine from the final print?

Basically I was hoping someone could outline the entire workflow.

Cheers

Dave





David, with the information you have given, I think you might want to look at telecine straight to HD SR. Your post house should be able to prepare your dailies for your editing program on DVD or hard drive. This way, you don't have to rent a HD deck and you'll have high quality picture for editing. When you are finnished with the offline and move on to your online, the film will already be in a high quality format. You will be in a position to go to screenings, make SD dubs or Blueray DVD's. Even if money runs out, before you can record to 35mm, you can still show your film. Here is an article you might like.

http://digitalconten...deo_sr_tape_di/
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#9 Emmanuel Lariviere

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 03:28 AM

David, is this a short or a feature? Here are some companies that have a few good articles about s16 to HD SR.

http://www.liquidcompanies.com/

Look at inDI under feature films.

http://www.laserpaci...what_we_do.html

cool site.
http://www.localheropost.com/
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#10 David Bradley

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:53 PM

Thank you all for the advice.

After discussing our options with Matt Adams (technicolor UK) I've decided to go for a telecine straight to HDCAM-SR. As a Emmanuel suggests it may be the safest option for such a low budget project and I've been told that many have had pleasing results transferring HDCAM-SR to 35mm should we wish to print to film at a later date.

Just one more question:

When the lab have performed the telecine and provide us with the HDCAM-SR rushes would it be best to use their VTR and dump DPX or 10 Bit Cineon files to hard drive or hire a deck later and capture into media composer. I realise this is reaching into the editors domain but I want to know for my own piece of mind and I need to get an idea of the sort of costs involved.

Thanks again

Dave
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Visual Products

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Broadcast Solutions Inc

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