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why is processing so expensive in austria (europe?)


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#1 XiaoSu Han

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 05:16 PM

hi!

since i am not so experienced with 35mm we went ahead and got a quote from our local lab for a shortfilm on 2perf, which resulted in

2500 usd for 2400 ft. of film, developed and HD bestlight to hard disk

then, we couldn't find 2perf cameras where we wanted to shoot (hk), everybody was like "just shoot 4perf" and i couldn't believe what the people were suggesting because the quote for 4perf stuff here would be:

5000 usd for 4800 ft. of film, developed and hd bestlight to hard disk

why? because they are calculating the telecine cost by foot! which is around 70 us cent a foot!

so i researched a bit, called cinelicious in hollywood and the quote in the states was the following:

275 usd an hour for unsupervised "diamond clear hd"
i talked with a guy from there and he was saying around 3 hours for 45 minutes of film

so it resulted in:

2perf:
1200 usd developed and diamond clear hd

4perf:
1600 usd developed and diamond clear hd

which made it clear to me why everybody was suggesting to go 4perf

so am i overlooking something or is the rate here probably from a 2k scan (is that by foot?)
or is it just so much more expensive around here?

thanks for clearing up!
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:44 PM

The Processing (development) of the film is not a real factor, the Scan/Transfer is. If you shoot 4-perf you can avoid a DI all together and save allot by contact printing. ;) In general HD transfer or 2K scans are going to be least expensive in LA because there is so much capacity. Everywhere else is used to studio/ad rates and the gear is expensive to own/maintain i.e. a full Spirit/DaVinci 2K room is probably $1Million used these days.. so there is a minimum cost, around $0.70/foot is probably reasonable in a way.

-Rob-
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#3 Paul Bruening

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:48 PM

Hello Xiao,

Frame counts stay the same. So, 4-perf will take as much time as 2-perf in the telecine, datacine or scanner. You save on "by the foot" deals but break even on "by the hour" deals. It's short ends and lab that you make your biggest savings in 2-perf. There are other benefits but I won't burden the thread with the same old songs.

As well, the US Dollar is pretty low. This is a good time to get as much post done in the US. Shipping costs and time delays seem to be the biggest offset to the value.
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#4 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:12 AM

As Rob said, the scanning is the real factor here. Cinelicious uses an (older) modified Cintel URSA Diamond telecine machine. Which is cool, vintage and tubey, but not as expensive to buy as a newer Spirit, or as sharp for that matter. The European post houses are probably using Spirits, Northlights, Arriscanners or other pricey ccd-based (and sharper) machines. So that is your trade off. The Cinelicious machine is intriguing, I will give it a shot here soon mylself to see what they can do with it.
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#5 David Auner aac

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:18 AM

so am i overlooking something or is the rate here probably from a 2k scan (is that by foot?)
or is it just so much more expensive around here?


Hi Xiao,

the market in Austria is so small that the competition isn't that fierce. What transfer house did you go to? I'm guessing either Listo or Synchro, since those are the only ones. Ask them both. You might also consider having development and telecine done in Munich, since the market there is huge compared to Austria and prices will likely be more competitive. At least that's my experience from gear rental which is far cheaper in Munich than here. A couple of years ago, Prague would have been a good idea too, but I reckon prices must have gone up there too recently. Hope that helps...

Cheers, Dave
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#6 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 03:35 AM

Huh, I woulda figured France or England woulda been the place to get a deal in western Europe on 35mm processing and telecine. :unsure:
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#7 Greg Traw

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 05:11 AM

Supply/demand is a bitch, ain't it! :angry:
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#8 XiaoSu Han

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 05:45 AM

i will definately send away my film in the future...

just checked on the prices of a fresh can of film in hk

90 euro, which is about 140 usd for a 400' roll of fuji 500d

that's just ridiculous, it's 250 euros here??
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#9 David Auner aac

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 06:13 AM

90 euro, which is about 140 usd for a 400' roll of fuji 500d

that's just ridiculous, it's 250 euros here??


No that's economics. The Euro is really strong right now and the demand for film isn't all that high here!

Cheers, Dave
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#10 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:50 AM

The cost of stock, processing and transfer in the US is about half to two thirds what it is in Europe, and particularly in the UK.

The reason for this is "because we can, ha ha ha."

P
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#11 Paul Bruening

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:47 AM

200+ ft. short ends (4 min. 22 sec. runtime in 2-perf) sell here for anywhere between 6 to 17 cents per foot USD. Lab goes for around 8 to 14 cents a foot. 2-perf is automatically half as many feet anyway. If you're counting pennies, 2-perf is an excellent way to go.
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#12 Freya Black

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:21 AM

Huh, I woulda figured France or England woulda been the place to get a deal in western Europe on 35mm processing and telecine. :unsure:


Nope, no film industry here!

There is a tradition of shooting 16mm here so the cost of processing 16mm here is slightly more reasonable but still expensive. 35mm OTOH is about half as much again. When the lab told me the price to process a can of 35mm and that there was a minimum $80 processing charge for any film processing my mouth fell open a little.

It's just the way it is here.

Suffice to say I'm seeing more and more of a digital future in Europe.

love

Freya
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#13 John Holland

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:32 AM

Freya a bit of subject but everything is a rip off in this country £4 for one stop on the London Underground .!! so processing goes along with everything else .
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#14 Freya Black

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 12:19 PM

Freya a bit of subject but everything is a rip off in this country £4 for one stop on the London Underground .!! so processing goes along with everything else .


Yes true, although I have an oyster card that weighs me down wherever I go tho.
It's funny to see people drop their oyster cards in Newcastle etc while looking for stuff in their purse.

It is preety messed up here generally you are right.
I don't think I want to think about all that stuff too much tho because that way lies madness.

love

Freya
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#15 Freya Black

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 12:24 PM

i will definately send away my film in the future...

just checked on the prices of a fresh can of film in hk

90 euro, which is about 140 usd for a 400' roll of fuji 500d

that's just ridiculous, it's 250 euros here??


Sounds like awesome news for your project then!
Now you don't have to work out how to get any film to hong Kong without being x-ray'd.
If you can then find a place in HK. to process the film too then it could be fantastic!
That would just leave telecine to worry about. :)

Good luck!

love

Freya

Edited by Freya Black, 07 August 2008 - 12:25 PM.

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#16 K Borowski

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:43 PM

i will definately send away my film in the future...

just checked on the prices of a fresh can of film in hk

90 euro, which is about 140 usd for a 400' roll of fuji 500d

that's just ridiculous, it's 250 euros here??


Not that I can say with certainty, as I've never bought fresh 35mm stock firsthand, but I heard recently in another thread here that film prices in Europe (at least the UK) and the US were about equally low. Someone in that thread threw out the E$250 sorry, no Euro key on most American Keyboards) figure in that thread too and someone shot them down. What gives?

And even though the U.S. Dollar is the weakest it has been in a long time here, isn't it true that, when you factor in higher taxes there, everthing from the U.S. really isn't all that cheaper with a 20-30 percent markup? Only thing taxes are that high on here is gas, and it's still far cheaper here and that money goes entirely to road maintenance and public transportation. Sales tax here is only 7 1/2 per cent, 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 per cent down the street from here, and no sales tax if you buy from outside of your own state, due to the interstate commerce law, which makes up the money through taxes elsewhere, IIRC.
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#17 Tim Terner

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 03:03 PM

Nothing going on in the UK ? perhaps you just dont look for anything. A pal of mine, Steve Davis, has these facilities http://www.arion.co.uk/tk.html and needs 8 features running at a time to make it pay. Think he does a best light, with colourist, at 19 pence a foot
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#18 Freya Black

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 05:31 PM

Nothing going on in the UK ? perhaps you just dont look for anything. A pal of mine, Steve Davis, has these facilities http://www.arion.co.uk/tk.html and needs 8 features running at a time to make it pay. Think he does a best light, with colourist, at 19 pence a foot


Isn't that about £80 for each 400ft can?
They look like nice facilities tho! :)

I don't think anyone said there was nothing going on in the u.k.
Quite frankly theres all kinds of stuff going on in the u.k. it's just that there is no film inustry here!

love

Freya
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#19 XiaoSu Han

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 05:57 PM

actually i found a lab and a telecine facility already

processing is 0.1 us cent a foot! at the lab that christopher doyle used to be at, mandarin labs that is
hd telecine is about 500 usd an hour

so that's quite cheap, and it the 2perf saving in hong kong would have been just peanuts...

we are testing on tuesday in hk, so i'll let you guys know how it went!
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#20 Ira Ratner

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 07:18 PM

What the heck is an oyster card?

Have you checked out India for processing? They have the largest film industry in the world, so I would think they would be cheap, considering all of the other factors.
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