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orange/brown-isch tone, how to achieve?


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#1 XiaoSu Han

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:44 PM

hi, i've seen the following two frames on a reel for a post house (local hero post), and would like to achieve a similar effect.

here are the two screens, before and after color correction

Posted Image

Posted Image

the thing is, before processing, the super16-2k scan looks quite a bit orange already, so i am guessing half-cto on the lights and shot on tungsten film?

or shot on daylight film and half-ctb on the tungsten lights? what would make more sense and would there be a difference?

or is it all the color correction afterwards?

i really like the tone of her skin in the corrected shot, so if i want to achieve such a tone on someones face, how can i prepare it in lighting and film-stock choice so the lab can just emphasize it a bit more to achieve it? what about super white flame or chocolate? or half straw?

i played around a little in photoshop and to achieve the look from the second picture i just needed to pull contrast to over 100%, and it looks quite like the final frame

we are planning to shoot tungsten interiors with daylight material and light the faces with daylight lamps with half cto on them, and let the backgrounds be very orangish tungsten, could that be a way of achieving the look i am after which is featured in those two frames? or would half cts be better?

thanks for any input on that matter!

regards, xax
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#2 Ira Ratner

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:51 PM

Color correction?

It just looks like they hyped the contrast to save the original washed out footage.
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#3 Andrew Koch

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:00 PM

we are planning to shoot tungsten interiors with daylight material and light the faces with daylight lamps with half cto on them, and let the backgrounds be very orangish tungsten, could that be a way of achieving the look i am after which is featured in those two frames? or would half cts be better?



I am a bit confused by the wording in this paragraph. Does "tungsten interiors" refer to tungsten filmstock? What do you mean by daylight "material?"

Why would you want to use daylight lamps (daylight kinos, hmi's, etc..)? Even with the half CTO, the lights would be still fairly cool (definitely cooler than tungsten lights). Unless by "daylight material" you mean an 85 filter on the camera. Then, maybe the lights might be slightly warm.

I would suggest using tungsten lamps with the warming gel of your choice (CTO, CTS, Amber, etc..).

Please clarify what you mean by "tungsten interiors" and "daylight material" and I'll try to see if I can give you some useful information
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#4 XiaoSu Han

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:31 PM

sorry for the terminology, i thought it was clear that way

by tungsten interiors i am referring to an interior location lit with tungsten practicals and tungsten lamps
by daylight material i am referring to daylight film stock, fuji 500D to be precise

so the idea is to use daylight stock on tungsten lit interiors, but lit the faces with daylight lamps with half cto, so the background gets reddish orange and the faces stay fairly neutral
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#5 J. Lamar King

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:00 AM

sorry for the terminology, i thought it was clear that way

by tungsten interiors i am referring to an interior location lit with tungsten practicals and tungsten lamps
by daylight material i am referring to daylight film stock, fuji 500D to be precise

so the idea is to use daylight stock on tungsten lit interiors, but lit the faces with daylight lamps with half cto, so the background gets reddish orange and the faces stay fairly neutral


What you are seeing in that shot is more about the colors in the shot. Skin tones, neutral walls brown furniture etc. You could achieve something similar with a dimmed down china ball for the actor, a dimmed practical in the background and use little to no fill. Get up close and take a spot reading of the highlight on the cheek and let that be the only thing that reaches key stop not over.
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#6 David Rakoczy

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:58 AM

You can get the same look (which really isn't all that unique) using Tungsten Film and Tungsten Lights... and Time it to what you want. Look at how the Practical in the BG matches the Key Light. This is all they did.

Don't judge the first Frame too much as it could have been set to look like anything. They weren't 'saving' washed out footage.. they were just leaving a lot of info in the low range so they could play with it (crush it) later.

Without seeing a Color Chart/ Gray Scale first then the shot following it (untouched), you have no way of knowing exactly what the Dp lit it to be (at acquisition)..

This is just nice Timing (Grading)

I believe the extra work you are going thru using Daylight stock and HMIs with 1/2 orange is entirely not necessary and will actually make it even harder for you.. why not shoot Tungsten Stock and Tungsten Lights with nothing or maybe 1/4 CTO to warm a touch tho it is not necessary as you can warm it in post. if you put some CTO on your key you will have to wrap all the practicals as well..a bunch of unnecessary work.

Of course you could just use a slight warming Filter overall but again completely unnecessary...

Edited by David Rakoczy, 08 August 2008 - 06:59 AM.

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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 10:33 AM

You could shoot on D stock and it'll be orange. . . I do it a lot with slide still film (look under the link in my signature to stills then "bohemia"). However, I'd recommend keeping it simple day of and then, as mentioned, tweaking it in post. Or you can use an warming filter, like an 81. Again, not sure if it would be better to just leave her in post. I'd have a talk with your colorist.
Also, a good deal of the "look," is based on what you're shooting. A bright red wall in a shot, for example, was probably just painted bright red on set instead of light/color corrected differently.
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#8 Eric Clark

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:34 PM

It's an easy effect to achieve, but if you ask me, she's lit with white light. Her hair is most definitely auburn, and her cheeks from makeup seem a bit orange too. I don't see a lot of orange in that original image though. The practicals will naturally have a bit more hue.

But if you want an orange or brownish tone to your image, capture it in camera! A simple filter will do the trick. If you're on Tungsten film throw in an 85 or two. Tobacco filters and chocolate filters are worth eyeballing also. If you want to control the orange hues on set, then a simple choice of gel such as CTO or CTS would suffice to create these colors.

Of course, test everything first. Then you can choose the look that best suits the film.

Here's an image from a film my buddy shot for me, you can see the orange on the skin tones very clearly. He utilized the 85 for this.

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#9 David Rakoczy

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:04 PM

But if you want an orange or brownish tone to your image, capture it in camera!
[/quote]

Why? Cinematography is (basically) a two part Process. Just like in Still Photography, the Grading of an Image is just as important (and often more so) than the actual Acquisition. Adding a Filter 'over-all' will affect everything in the Frame... while, if you just want warm skin tones.. you are better off playing with that in Telecine as you can isolate that more without affecting the rest of the Frame (as much).. or warm the entire Frame.. or warm parts of the Frame more than others. The idea that everything needs to be done [in Camera] is to deny all the powerful tools at your disposal. Yes, I try to do as much 'in-Camera' as possible.. because I like the discipline, however, knowing what I can do in Telecine, has given me the wisdom to know where to apply 'what'.... for the most 'Control'....

Don't deny the second 'Step'... and don't solely rely on it either....

Edited by David Rakoczy, 08 August 2008 - 07:05 PM.

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#10 David Rakoczy

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 08:19 PM

Because you supplied two great Stills as an example, here is one more stab at this thing. From Image one to Image two:

1. The Low Range (Blacks) were severely crushed to give the image Depth and Contrast. Notice the loss of Detail in the Dark areas between the before and after Stills.

2. The Mid Range was also crushed a bit.. and they were 'Warmed Up'... Notice the Cheek, Lips and Hair... Warmed Up... also affecting the Walls.

3. The High Range was elevated for even more Contrast and Punch.. notice the Candles and Hair Highlights... and also the Skin Highlights...

Now, had they placed a Warming Filter 'over-all', even the Highlights would be Warm.. and more importantly the Mid to Hi Range of her Skin would be Warm.. which would render muddy Skin Tones... compared to the nice effect they have in Image two... shot clean.

I hope this all helps Xiaosu.

Edited by David Rakoczy, 08 August 2008 - 08:20 PM.

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