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Simultaneously exposing through the lens and eyepiece


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#1 Kirsty Stark

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:38 PM

Watching the video split on a recent 35mm project, I became really interested in the 'double image' that appeared whenever the DOP was away from the camera and there was light entering the frame simultaneously from the eyepiece and the lens. Having never been on a film project with a video split before, I found some of the effects quite fascinating.

I want to do some experimentation based around this theme, and was wondering if anyone is aware of it ever being done before, or any examples that I could look at before I start.

I plan to experiment with different things behind the eyepiece - textures, coloured gels, shadows, shapes, etc., and would love some input and suggestions on what to try.

I also have a couple of questions... I assume the effect of this would be similar to exposing the same film frame twice. Would I then close down one stop because double the light would be coming through? Or is there likely to be a difference between in the amount of light that is coming through the eyepiece compared to the lens? Is there a way I could measure this?

I have some 16mm stock that I can shoot on, and access to a 16mm camera for free... the only problem being that it doesn't have a video split. Do you think it's worth experimenting 'blind' or should I try to hire a 35mm camera with a video split and use the 35mm short ends I have sitting at home?

Thanks for any input.
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#2 Dan Goulder

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:58 PM

An open eyepiece on a reflex camera can potentially fog the film enough to ruin a take, especially with daylight behind the camera. Of course, if that's the look you want, then I guess it's nobody's business but yours.
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#3 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 03:11 AM

If you want a double image in camera that you can somewhat control, you want to experiment with Pepper's Ghost Effect and again, as I always do when this subject is broached, I recommend taking a look at Mario Bava's Black Sabbath where this effect was used brilliantly.
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#4 Kirsty Stark

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:11 AM

Thank you both for the input. I've been reading the other topics on the forum regarding traditional double exposure and the Pepper's Ghost effect, and I'll definitely have a look at at Black Sabbath.

I'm still interested in experimenting with the idea of exposing through the eyepiece and lens simultaneously. It will be more for my own purposes than for someone else's film, so I'm not particularly concerned if there are some fogging effects or light leaks, unless they are likely to be so dramatic that there will be no discernable image.

If anyone else has any advice or predictions as to what the results might be, I would appreciate it.

(Also, any images anyone has of fogging that has occured through unintentional eyepiece leaks would be helpful).

Thanks.
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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 02:56 AM

This is definitely a non traditional way of achieving this effect so the only way to see what will happen it to try it. Set the shot up, pour light onto the eyepiece subject and roll the camera. It will either work or not. I'd recommend a 100 ft short end for a test see what happens. I honestly doubt whether the results will be what you want but HEY, I've been wrong before....once. :rolleyes: You won't be out that much if it sucks so it's worth a try if you think it'll produce an effect you can use. give it a shot and post the results. I'd actually like to see what this looks like. B)

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 09 August 2008 - 02:58 AM.

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#6 John Brawley

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 05:46 AM

Watching the video split on a recent 35mm project, I became really interested in the 'double image' that appeared whenever the DOP was away from the camera and there was light entering the frame simultaneously from the eyepiece and the lens. Having never been on a film project with a video split before, I found some of the effects quite fascinating.


Thanks for any input.


Hi Kirsty.

I think you'll find it won't work. I think this is because the projected image is actually being projected onto the pellicle or the semi silvered mirror of the split, but this isn't going to end up projected onto the film itself, because there is no direct optical path to the film.

The peppers ghost technique is the same thing relly, so you can fool around with that. I thought about using it recently on Lake Mungo for some of the effects. I did some tests using a video projector and it's pretty cool. I didn't end up using them on the shoot though.

good luck.

jb
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#7 Kirsty Stark

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 09:50 AM

I think you'll find it won't work. I think this is because the projected image is actually being projected onto the pellicle or the semi silvered mirror of the split, but this isn't going to end up projected onto the film itself, because there is no direct optical path to the film.


Ah, OK... that makes sense. I'll try the Pepper's Ghost version instead.

Thanks!
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