Jump to content


Photo

Par Strength for Bounced Moonlight


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 15 August 2008 - 02:10 PM

Hey everyone! First time poster here~

I'm going to be DP on a short film this summer, shooting on 16mm. It takes place entirely at night. The main shot I'm concerned with now is a Glidecam shot that follows the main character as he walks from a van across the street to the front of a house.

Of the various lighting techniques I've read so far, ideally I'd rent balloon light, but I hear they run close to $1000 a day. So it's a little out of the budget.

I came across a set up where a bead board is a attached via duck bill to an arm, which is attached to the combo stand that's raised as high up at possible. The board is angled around 45 degrees towards the ground.

A par is then sat on the ground on a pigeon stand or the like, and shot up toward the bead board.

Sounds like a very cost-effective solution, but I was wondering what strength hmi par is recommended for this?

This light will serve as general ambiance and back-light. For a fill, I'm considering somebody hollywooding a LitePanel at an opposite angle, walking with me as I shoot.

Any suggestions?

Thanks everyone!
  • 0

#2 Matthew Parnell

Matthew Parnell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts
  • Electrician
  • Brisbane, Australia

Posted 15 August 2008 - 09:19 PM

Trying to light such a large area i'm unsure that this would be the most effective way of doing this. While this method is quite effective for close ups, but from what you described your shot is covering a fairly large area.

Also, for us to suggest what lamp you need, we need to know what stock your shooting and what stop you want to achieve. Theres a big difference to what you will need if you are shooting 250D at f4 or 500T at f2.8.

Edited by Matthew Parnell, 15 August 2008 - 09:20 PM.

  • 0

#3 David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1579 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • USA

Posted 15 August 2008 - 09:44 PM

As far as Moonlight goes, bounce two 9Lights off two 12x Grifflons (spread apart a bit) using 1/2 Blue on the Lights... create contrast by using Tungsten as incandescent accents. You really need just a touch of Moonlight as the rest can be motivated from Street Lights/ Porch Lights etc... depending on your Format/ Stock you might get away with one 9Light.
  • 0

#4 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 August 2008 - 01:34 AM

Is there a stock that you guys would recommend for night shoots like these? I know the director is given an allotment for the class, but he doesn't know what stock is provided yet. So it might be our choice~

And 9Lights? Like a maxibrute?

Also, if you guys have any other suggestions on lighting a scene like this, do let me know! I'm all ears. Thanks!
  • 0

#5 David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1579 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • USA

Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:40 AM

I would recommend Kodak's new 7219. Call them.. (323-464-6131) and ask for their info Packet with info on all their Stocks including any DVDs. They have a great DVD out on 72/ 5219 (500t). I normally do not go faster than 7217 (200t) because I really like to deliver a glossy, tight Grain 35mm (like) Image. Of course, subject dictates so if a ton of Grain is desired that is a different story. The new 19 Stock looks fantastic and I plan to use it in a couple weeks on a Night Shoot.

Yes, 9Lights are Maxi Bruts (about $135 each per day).

Tim , where do you live? If it is in the US, feel free to call me (see link below) and leave your phone number. I will be happy to call you tonight.... or tomorrow night.
  • 0

#6 J. Lamar King

J. Lamar King
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 764 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:37 PM

I don't know what your budget is exactly but you can set up a 'poor man's condor' for less than a balloon for sure. Do it by running an 8x Ultra bounce top stick on two Mombo's and hit it with a 12k PAR. Use 500 speed tungsten stock and you are good to go. You can cover a fairly large area with this setup and get about a T1.4 to a T2.
  • 0

#7 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:53 PM

Ooh, thanks everyone!

Any suggestions on the fill?

If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town,

http://www.trailerad...hind-the-scenes

53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is?

Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources.

But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight?
  • 0

#8 J. Lamar King

J. Lamar King
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 764 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:04 PM

Ooh, thanks everyone!

Any suggestions on the fill?

If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town,

http://www.trailerad...hind-the-scenes

53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is?

Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources.

But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight?


That light you see is just a china ball on a boom pole. looks like one of the nicer ones. You can surely use a paper lantern just be sure the globe can't swing around and ignite it! You can create a huge soft ambiance by bouncing an 18 or 12k off the back of a.....well you better PM me some things are trade secrets!
  • 0

#9 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:09 PM

http://www.trailerad...hind-the-scenes

53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is?

Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources.


Actually it was an electrician and it was me. It is a small Chimera lantern with a PH 213 I recall. Also if I can recall it really was more for an eyelight than a fill light.

Best

Tim
  • 0

#10 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:14 PM

That light you see is just a china ball on a boom pole. looks like one of the nicer ones. You can surely use a paper lantern just be sure the globe can't swing around and ignite it! You can create a huge soft ambiance by bouncing an 18 or 12k off the back of a.....well you better PM me some things are trade secrets!


Trade secrets? C'mon.
  • 0

#11 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:07 AM

"Actually it was an electrician and it was me. It is a small Chimera lantern with a PH 213 I recall. Also if I can recall it really was more for an eyelight than a fill light.

Best

Tim"


Haha, oh man. Small world~ Thanks!

As far as Moonlight goes, bounce two 9Lights off two 12x Grifflons (spread apart a bit) using ...


12 x 12 Grifflons (i assume that's what 12x means), would be hard to raise up and angle down, wouldn't it?

Even though it is a general fill, isn't the angle apparent?
  • 0

#12 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:38 AM

Haha, oh man. Small world~ Thanks!



12 x 12 Grifflons (i assume that's what 12x means), would be hard to raise up and angle down, wouldn't it?

Even though it is a general fill, isn't the angle apparent?


That's no problem if you have a key grip who's worth even half his salt.
  • 0

#13 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:01 AM

Haha, well in any instance, ruby 7 vs maxibrute?

a more direct beam would mean a stronger bounce, no?
  • 0

#14 Kiarash Sadigh

Kiarash Sadigh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Toronto

Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:58 PM

Ooh, thanks everyone!

Any suggestions on the fill?

If you check out this behind-the-scenes clip from the new movie Ghost Town,

http://www.trailerad...hind-the-scenes

53 seconds into it you see a steadicam shot where a grip is hollywooding an interesting ballon like light. Anyone know what that is?

Of course, that kind of kicker may be a little bright considering the scene there is in a city setting, full of lights coming from all sorts of sources.

But I plan on the moonlight serving as a backlight primarily. I can have the face fall in and out of darkness as he walks across the street, but any ideas on a gentle fill coming in from opposite the moonlight?

You may want to consider a small DC-run HMI, like Arri pocket par or a K5600 Joker Bug...they can both get equipped with pancakes like that....
  • 0

#15 David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1579 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • USA

Posted 17 August 2008 - 03:43 PM

Kiarash.. a Joker for Moonlight on a Street Scene??? DC????????? Huh?

Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips...
  • 0

#16 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:40 PM

Chris, I like your response... Tim had better hunker down with a 'real' Gaffer.. who know some 'real' Grips...


I can't quite tell if there's sarcasm there or not. :blink:
  • 0

#17 David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1579 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • USA

Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:43 PM

I am totally serious.... no sarcasm intended.

btw Tim.. all Light (angles) are apparent... one only has to look for the shadow...
  • 0

#18 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 17 August 2008 - 05:25 PM

I am totally serious.... no sarcasm intended.

btw Tim.. all Light (angles) are apparent... one only has to look for the shadow...


OK, I wasn't quite sure. I basically meant that raising and rigging 12-bys isn't a big concern if you have at least a semi-experienced grip on the crew. They'll also know how to rig ropes to adjust it so you don't have to stem everything down to change the tilt.

I should also add that if you're considering this approach, Tim, to make sure it's done safely. It's easy to raise and rig a 12x when it's calm but in even a little wind, it can become dangerous easily.

Edited by Chris Keth, 17 August 2008 - 05:26 PM.

  • 0

#19 Tim Wu

Tim Wu
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 17 August 2008 - 07:19 PM

Yeah, that was my main concern. I'm not sure how windy the location gets, but better safe than sorry.

I'll probably go for several smaller grifflons as opposed to a couple gigantic ones~
  • 0

#20 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 17 August 2008 - 09:18 PM

m

Edited by timHealy, 17 August 2008 - 09:20 PM.

  • 0


Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineLab

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Abel Cine

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Opal

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc