Jump to content


Photo

How prone to drop out is MiniDV?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:33 PM

Hi.

I'm recording a ton of footage for a friends band, but as they are cheap they aren't paying for the stock, I'm using my own.

At my college we have a degausser, which magnetically wipes the tapes ready to re-used again.

My question is, how much quality is going to be lost by degaussing the tapes and re-using them? Technically speaking, how bad is it re-using stock? I know it's not professional, but I'm recording a lot of footage and this isn't being sold.

cheers.
Dan.
  • 0

#2 Jim Keller

Jim Keller
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Producer
  • Fresno, CA

Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:48 PM

Hi.

I'm recording a ton of footage for a friends band, but as they are cheap they aren't paying for the stock, I'm using my own.

At my college we have a degausser, which magnetically wipes the tapes ready to re-used again.

My question is, how much quality is going to be lost by degaussing the tapes and re-using them? Technically speaking, how bad is it re-using stock? I know it's not professional, but I'm recording a lot of footage and this isn't being sold.

cheers.
Dan.


I can't give you a quantitative answer, but we have a policy of never re-using tapes, because we've found that even on the second use the chance of dropout seems to increase dramatically.

That said, there are some stocks which will almost always drop out when brand new (not naming names, Sony), so I'm sure there are others that are more robust on re-use.

Really, though, tape is one of the cheapest elements on a production, so do everything in your power not to cheap out on it.
  • 0

#3 Kevin Mastman

Kevin Mastman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student

Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:00 PM

I generally do not reuse tapes simply because if something happens, like harddrive failure or accidental deletion of your media on your computer, you no longer have the footage anywhere and you are SOL. If you do want to reuse the tape though, you really don't need to degauss it. You should be able to just rewind and tape over it without considerable quality loss (if your not doing it excessively).

Kevin
  • 0

#4 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:38 PM

Same. I never re-use tapes, it's just not worth the risk.

But I was just wondering if there are any quantitive test results out there, I mean, we all avoid re-using tapes but, I wonder how bad it actually is technically. I've personally never experienced any problems, only ever problems from other factors like treating them badly etc. but I'm not looking into each any every pixel to see that everything is perfect.
  • 0

#5 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11934 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:07 PM

I have had very few problems with dropout, but then, I don't reuse tape. You should also understand that DV drops out as much as anything else, it just hides it better.

The only time I've had a lot of problems was on one of those truly horrible cheap and nasty JVC combo DV/VHS things. Awful.

P
  • 0

#6 Dan Goulder

Dan Goulder
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1259 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 August 2008 - 08:14 PM

You should be fine as long as you keep the heads clean, and stick with the same brand of tape. (Dropouts and clogged heads are most likely to occur when you switch tapes that use different backing formulations. For some reason, there can be a chemical interaction that does a number on the tape heads.) I don't recall which brands use which backing types, but I'm sure such information is available.
  • 0

#7 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:42 AM

Hi Daniel,

as a rule I don't reuse DV tapes. You're usually ok with Beta or the like as the 1/2" tape is much more substantial. In short to save yourself any trouble and bite the bullet and go out buy fresh tapes. Your peace of mind should be worth a couple bucks! :D

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#8 Josh Bass

Josh Bass
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 552 posts
  • Other

Posted 22 August 2008 - 04:32 AM

I second not re-using tape. How much is a "ton of footage"? How much do you see yourself recording? Are we talking 2 hours or 50 hours? If it's a low number, maybe just bite the bullet and buy new stock on your own dime. Here in the US, there are places you can get the middle grade of Panasonic tape (ends with "PQ") for $3 (don't know what that is in pounds, sorry) per tape. If it's a lot of tapes you think you'll be needing, then different story, I guess. I would press for them to pay for tape stock. It's the least they could do, considering you're donating your time, skill, and possibly expensive gear. What it comes down to is that if you're volunteering to do the gig at all, even for no pay, you want to do your best, which would definitely include not using already-recorded tape stock. If you have to do it anyway, tell 'em, "you're cheap, so if this comes out like ass, you got what you paid for."
  • 0

#9 Morgan Lowndes

Morgan Lowndes

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Steadicam Operator
  • UK

Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:47 PM

hey Daniel

i see your uk based, you can get good stock so cheap theres really no need to re-use.
apr do these:

http://www.aprmedia....ct.php?pid=1772

are you shootin a music promo or something bigger?

best
morgs
  • 0

#10 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 23 August 2008 - 01:40 PM

To be honest I'm not shooting enough to be worried too much about the cost (that first line was a bit ott), I was just wondering if there was actually any conclusive evidence that re-using digital tapes decreases the quality in anyway, or if it's just one big cliche.
  • 0

#11 Albert Wood

Albert Wood
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:32 AM

To be honest I'm not shooting enough to be worried too much about the cost (that first line was a bit ott), I was just wondering if there was actually any conclusive evidence that re-using digital tapes decreases the quality in anyway, or if it's just one big cliche.



A lot of the tape manufacturers claim it is safe to use tapes ten times. As others have said, I would never re-use a tape on important work. Where we are just looking at possibilities, or something that might be irritating to replace the footage but not costly or impossible I have used tapes for two or three times. I have never had any problems.
Cheers, Albert.
  • 0

#12 Rioux Pierre Samuel

Rioux Pierre Samuel
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Quebec

Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:37 PM

A lot of the tape manufacturers claim it is safe to use tapes ten times. As others have said, I would never re-use a tape on important work. Where we are just looking at possibilities, or something that might be irritating to replace the footage but not costly or impossible I have used tapes for two or three times. I have never had any problems.
Cheers, Albert.



First do not mix tape Kind like Sony and other ?
Some are wet lube like sony and all the other are dry lube
some head do not like to switch to one then to another...
So if you used Sony stay with sony or go with the other.

Personally i used the JVC PQ hd
  • 0

#13 Jim Gibbons

Jim Gibbons

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Other

Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:00 AM

Well maybe this will help as I have reused tapes. I'm not exactly shooting anything of importance or for money so I figure why not. I will say however that the tapes were new and not used by god knows how many other students. I'd say buy a few, use them, get the footage to a hard drive and use them again. I have had no problem with drop out from mini DV so far and I know one tape has been used about 5 times. I'd say it mostly depends on the age of the tape. Have you ever tried to play a 25 year old VHS tape? AHHH!
  • 0


CineTape

Ritter Battery

The Slider

Abel Cine

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Technodolly

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

Opal

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

The Slider