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Sony F23


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#1 blain murphey

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:02 PM

Hello,

I got a job on a Feature that is filming on the Sony F23. I have never used it and dont use digital that much. Is there anything that would be usefull for me to know on this camera. I am the 1st AC. Any extra gear i should ask for in Prep.
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#2 Alex Worster

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:19 PM

Here's a link to the manual: http://www.panavisio...ManualsSONY.htm Don't have too much fun with that but you should probably get to know it pretty well as the f23 has some interesting features above and beyond the f900. If you know the f900 pretty well then the learn curve shouldn't be too steep.

Where are you getting your camera from? Most rental houses I've ever dealt with are totally cool with you coming down and learning their camera provided you don't show up when everyone is slamed for the stuff to do.
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#3 blain murphey

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 09:16 PM

Here's a link to the manual: http://www.panavisio...ManualsSONY.htm Don't have too much fun with that but you should probably get to know it pretty well as the f23 has some interesting features above and beyond the f900. If you know the f900 pretty well then the learn curve shouldn't be too steep.

Where are you getting your camera from? Most rental houses I've ever dealt with are totally cool with you coming down and learning their camera provided you don't show up when everyone is slamed for the stuff to do.


Thanks for the Operating Manual. Im not sure right now were we are getting the camera from. But im going to make sure i get to sit through the prep session at the rental house. Does Panavision Hollywood rent out F23's. If so would it be possible to come down and sit through a prep if there is one going on some time this week. I dont shoot for two weeks so i have some time to learn the camera. and I am familiar with the F900 so i doesn't seem that it is going to be to hard.
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#4 Mark August SOC

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 03:37 PM

Thanks for the Operating Manual. Im not sure right now were we are getting the camera from. But im going to make sure i get to sit through the prep session at the rental house. Does Panavision Hollywood rent out F23's. If so would it be possible to come down and sit through a prep if there is one going on some time this week. I dont shoot for two weeks so i have some time to learn the camera. and I am familiar with the F900 so i doesn't seem that it is going to be to hard.


Blain,

Yes we have F23's camera at Panavision Hollywood. We are always here to help you. Most AC's (who are new to a camera)call a week before there prep and request a one-on-one hands on demo once they know the camera is renting from us. Most Dp's will set this up for there crew.
All the rental house's I have been to are open to AC's coming in with advanced notice to understand a camera or camera format (HD and film). Its a good sign to the rental house that your not going to have issues on set or on location. If you don't ask, what have you lost? Go after your dream and make it happen! Hope that helps!

All the best,

Mark August
Panavision Hollywood, HD Dept.
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#5 Ruth Greer

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 10:57 AM

I found the most useful thing was a mains extension cable! The batteries are large and don't last long, maybe an hour - less when using LCS, onboard monitor etc so running the camera from mains power was the best option.

We also opted to mount the recorder deck on the camera rather than keep it separate. It's much easier on location and cuts down setup time but it makes the camera pretty heavy, about as heavy as a panalux 35mm with a 1000 foot mag.

Hope that helps. Have fun =)
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#6 Scott Dolan

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:44 AM

The biggest and most important thing to get your head around with the F23 is the S-Log recording option.
You have the choice whether to shoot in S-Log mode or select a gamma setting for recording to tape.
S-Log is designed for the grade (pulls in the image retaining as much info as possible), therefore not committing to any sort of "look" on set.
Whereas if you select a gamma preset or load a user gamma curve, then that is what goes to tape.

If you are recording S-Log there is a function in the camera where you can turn Rec-709 Gamma on for your MONITORS ONLY. This is not recorded to tape. This is simply to give you a beefier image on set for the Director and so forth to give you a bit of a more accurate idea of what the image will look like after the grade. The S-Log image without Gamma monitoring switched on is really quite flat and lifeless.

Also I would recommend thoroughly reading through the SRW-1 manual as there is a few things to know with these recorders and can be tricky when recording externally from the camera via dual HD-SDI.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

p.s: be careful with those silly 4-stage latches for mounting the SRW-1 to camera. They are prone to breaking and cost around $650 AUD to replace!
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#7 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 03:44 AM

After reading the F23 manual, I had several "general practice" questions:

1. When shooting in the "custom mode" for broadcast and having a DIT painting the camera on set, is it generally recommended to use the "extended" d-range and "wide" color space settings?

2. When would you use "normal" d-range?

3. How do these settings affect the overall image in combination with your choice of gamma?

4. When would you use the "cine" mode? Is it just for when you use S-Log gamma?

5. When you're shooting a 23.98 project that requires 24-60 fps overcranking, is it recommended to shoot the whole project in "S59.94P 4:2:2 YCbCr" format or would you use S23.98/23.98 PsF and only switch over for the overcranked shots? Does it only matter if you need 4:4:4 RGB on the 23.98 footage?

6. I've heard recommendations to use a separate tape specifically for off-speed footage - should you also use a separate tape if (for whatever reason) you change the format but not frame rate (i.e. S23.98 PsF 4:2:2 --> 23.98 PsF 4:4:4)?

7. Is it generally recommended to use electronic 5600K white balance whenever possible instead of 3200K and the internal filter wheel? I understand the latter is a bit noisier than the former. Is this true?

Thanks!
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#8 Scott Dolan

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 05:17 AM

After reading the F23 manual, I had several "general practice" questions:

1. When shooting in the "custom mode" for broadcast and having a DIT painting the camera on set, is it generally recommended to use the "extended" d-range and "wide" color space settings?

2. When would you use "normal" d-range?

3. How do these settings affect the overall image in combination with your choice of gamma?

4. When would you use the "cine" mode? Is it just for when you use S-Log gamma?

5. When you're shooting a 23.98 project that requires 24-60 fps overcranking, is it recommended to shoot the whole project in "S59.94P 4:2:2 YCbCr" format or would you use S23.98/23.98 PsF and only switch over for the overcranked shots? Does it only matter if you need 4:4:4 RGB on the 23.98 footage?

6. I've heard recommendations to use a separate tape specifically for off-speed footage - should you also use a separate tape if (for whatever reason) you change the format but not frame rate (i.e. S23.98 PsF 4:2:2 --> 23.98 PsF 4:4:4)?

7. Is it generally recommended to use electronic 5600K white balance whenever possible instead of 3200K and the internal filter wheel? I understand the latter is a bit noisier than the former. Is this true?

Thanks!



I'm not too sure about the colour space and dynamic range questions sorry. You might have to chat with a Sony tech about that.

4. Yes you use "cine" mode when shooting S-log. Custom mode is for when you are shooting with a selected gamma, so you can alter the curve or play with the black levels etc. So you can "paint" your image on the day. You can also shoot "cine" mode when using a preset gamma, but you have no control over the variables.

5. You might as well get the best colour compression when you can. So best to shoot _23.98 4:4:4 then switch to S59.94 4:2:2 for your overcranked stuff.

6. Changing tapes for off-sync frame rates only applies to the Panasonics (Varicam, P2) which need to go through a different capturing process.
There may be other systems that require this too, but I'm pretty sure that this doesnt apply to the HDCAM-SR format. Although you wont be able to play back from the SRW-1 any footage that has been shot S59.94 4:2:2 if the deck is set to _23.98 4:4:4.

7. You should run some tests on this, but yes I believe it is a little noisier with the D5600 switched on as the camera needs to compensate for the loss of light electronically.
I wonder if anyone else can shed some light on this?


Hope this helps :blink:
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 07:20 AM

Changing tapes for off-sync frame rates only applies to the Panasonics (Varicam, P2) which need to go through a different capturing process.


That's not universally true even then, depending on your post process.

P
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#10 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 04:29 PM

Thanks Scott. :)

Don't need a separate tape for P2 though since there is no tape. ;)
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#11 Scott Dolan

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 11:54 PM

Thanks Scott. :)

Don't need a separate tape for P2 though since there is no tape. ;)



Ah too true. However I'm pretty sure you still need to isolate frame-rates onto separate cards?
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#12 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:49 AM

Ah too true. However I'm pretty sure you still need to isolate frame-rates onto separate cards?

Nope, it's all in the metadata. Gotta love clip-based recording.
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