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Is 5 stops savable?


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#1 Kim Dee

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:56 PM

I was being stupid when filming and not paying attention when reading my light meter with the high slide in and overexposed a roll of 250D (16mm) by five stops. Is this worth trying to save by pulling two stops? Or should it just become a dummy load or clear leader?
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#2 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:25 PM

If you pull it 3 stops you may be OK. I dunno who does 3 stop pull process. Most labs do 2 in either direction. Ask around. It will cost ya and the results may be, interesting, I guess: lower contrast for one thing. I love the sharper grain you get through pull processing though, depending on the stock.

In my experience 7205 will handle 2 stops pull processing fine. The contrast had to be manipulated in post though, it was too creamy for my taste.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 04 September 2008 - 10:26 PM.

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#3 K Borowski

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 07:21 AM

If you pull it 3 stops you may be OK. I dunno who does 3 stop pull process. Most labs do 2 in either direction. Ask around. It will cost ya and the results may be, interesting, I guess: lower contrast for one thing. I love the sharper grain you get through pull processing though, depending on the stock.

In my experience 7205 will handle 2 stops pull processing fine. The contrast had to be manipulated in post though, it was too creamy for my taste.



If I recall correctly, and this may actuallly be the C-41 time, but same friggin' difference, every 30 seconds is a stop, and the normal time is 3:45. If you lower the time below half that, about 1:45, you wouldn't even get the start of development, so pulling three stops is a bad idea because you're at such short times you're near 1:45 at 2:15 and there probably isn't enough time to even get complete development.

I would recommend a 1- or 2 stop pull if you can find it, but consider this: overexposure is GOOD for film, not this much, mind you, but this will definitely yield usable results, albeit with a high degree of halation if you shot any back-lit stuff.

So pull a little or just process as normal and find a lab that can TK or print a bulletproof negative, as this is going to be pretty dense and difficult to work with.
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 08:07 AM

If I recall correctly, and this may actuallly be the C-41 time, but same friggin' difference, every 30 seconds is a stop, and the normal time is 3:45. If you lower the time below half that, about 1:45, you wouldn't even get the start of development, so pulling three stops is a bad idea because you're at such short times you're near 1:45 at 2:15 and there probably isn't enough time to even get complete development.

I would recommend a 1- or 2 stop pull if you can find it, but consider this: overexposure is GOOD for film, not this much, mind you, but this will definitely yield usable results, albeit with a high degree of halation if you shot any back-lit stuff.

So pull a little or just process as normal and find a lab that can TK or print a bulletproof negative, as this is going to be pretty dense and difficult to work with.


Hi,

Geoff Boyle has intentionally overexposed 5 stops (no pull process) when shooting a Boy band with bad skin! A lot depends on the subject & how you want it to look!

Stephen
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#5 K Borowski

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 08:29 AM

Hi,

Geoff Boyle has intentionally overexposed 5 stops (no pull process) when shooting a Boy band with bad skin! A lot depends on the subject & how you want it to look!

Stephen


Yeah, wasn't there a post here about doing that sort of thing to get halation intentionally? It'll definitley give you images, not like underexposing 5-stops, in which case, you'd probably be totally sh-it-out-of-luck.

I'll see if I can find it.
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 08:58 AM

Yeah, wasn't there a post here about doing that sort of thing to get halation intentionally? It'll definitley give you images, not like underexposing 5-stops, in which case, you'd probably be totally sh-it-out-of-luck.

I'll see if I can find it.


Hi,

You just loose detail in the highlights, kind of "compression"

Stephen
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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 10:04 AM

I also think, according to the ASC podcast, that they overexposed a scene in The Dark Knight, in the Joker's interrogation room, by 5 stops, and then I think printed down (perhaps with a pull process).
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#8 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 10:12 AM

It's saveable in TK, that I know. Might get some highlights quite noisy and burned out, but you'll be surprised how resilient film is to overexposure.
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#9 Mike Simpson

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 12:42 PM

it depends on what you were metering when you say "overexposed by 5 stops" too. =D
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#10 John Brawley

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 04:56 AM

I was being stupid when filming and not paying attention when reading my light meter with the high slide in and overexposed a roll of 250D (16mm) by five stops. Is this worth trying to save by pulling two stops? Or should it just become a dummy load or clear leader?



You'll be OK if it's just to telecine (video finish). I've done almost the same thing and it was graded back to almost match...it did get a bit noisier....

A pull will help, but it may also change your contrast a fair bit....can you try a clip test and see what works best ?

jb
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#11 K Borowski

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 10:25 AM

You'll be OK if it's just to telecine (video finish). I've done almost the same thing and it was graded back to almost match...it did get a bit noisier....

A pull will help, but it may also change your contrast a fair bit....can you try a clip test and see what works best ?

jb


I'd actually think you'd get a better result with a film finish than an electronic transfer in this case.

You're limited by the analog gain on a scanner/telecine gate (the brightness of the lightbulb/laser), or the maximum printer light. Highlights might not be savable, even if they were captured on the actual negative, if you can't print through them they're so dense. When we talk about generation loss, this is where information is loss first during the duplicating process.

"It depends on how you metered five stops" is a good point. Are you certain it was that much, or are you just guessing?

I agree you want a pull, but nothing more than one stop of pulling, MAYBE two. I've done a two pull once and you're really going to lose contrast in that situation.

I think a clip test would be a good call. Any possibility of shooting a chart with the same conditions on the end, or did you roll out?
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#12 Kim Dee

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 02:17 PM

I was shooting at a 5.6 or so (give or take a stop as I was shooting on the fly and did change it for clouds and reflection off of the ocean) and metered with the high slide in (as I was outside) and read the meter as if it were not in. I should have been shooting at 32 or so.

I think I will try a clip test as everyone seems to think there will be a result of some kind. I'll post the results here when I get them back for those who are interested.

Thanks for all the advice!
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