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Back-winding (re-winding) film in K3?


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#1 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 06:23 PM

Hi all,
The biggest disadvantage of the K3 for experimental film makers over using a bolex, is that it has no mechanism for re-winding film. Has anyone ever considered ways this might be possible?
cheers,
richard
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#2 Ira Ratner

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 06:33 PM

I guess a $200 camera has its limits, especially since these kinds of effects are done in post anyway.

What exactly do you want to do?
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#3 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 05:21 AM

I guess a $200 camera has its limits, especially since these kinds of effects are done in post anyway.

What exactly do you want to do?


Hi Ira,
back-winding has loads of applications. Here are some examples from 4 of my films... I might multi-expose material with different coloured filters on the lens ...
rgb_small.JPG
from my film 'RGB'




or use mattes for various split techniques ...
dead_pan_small.JPG
from my film 'dead pan'



or double expose silhouetted images onto hi-con negative which leaves image only on the overlap of the two images ...
treelines_small.JPG
from my film 'tree lines'


or a combination of these ...
zoom_tube_small.JPG
from my film 'zoom tube'


these are just a few examples, but there are loads of possibilities. Yes, all of this can be done 'in post' ... which usually means 'on video' but could mean on a JK optical printer or similar (as I sometimes do on mine) or else it could mean 'in DI' if you had loads of money ... but for film makers who like to project film, then 'in camera' is a nice, traditional way to go... and it saves the generation loss of using a jk printer etc (which not many people have anyway).
Actually, I have half an eye on running some 'nano lab' film courses. Yes, the cost of K3 cameras and what you get for the money, is unbeatable value, especially if you want one per student (indeed the K3 would really make this possible for a lot less than a set of working bolexes). I love my K3, though I don't use it much because it can't back-wind.

I was looking at my k3 today and found that it is possible to rotate the sprocket drive with your thumb a tiny bit in the opposite direction ... maybe just a frame or two. I wonder if there is a simple 'one way' cog that could be modified allowing the k3 to be hand wound backwards in the say way that you can hand crank forwards (if you replace the winder with a crank that is). but thinking about it, you would also have to be able to disengage the motor or else back winding would effectively be 'unwinding' the spring ... or something ...
... any one have any thoughts on this?
cheers,
richard

Edited by Richard Tuohy, 13 September 2008 - 05:22 AM.

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#4 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:53 AM

Hi all,
The biggest disadvantage of the K3 for experimental film makers over using a bolex, is that it has no mechanism for re-winding film. Has anyone ever considered ways this might be possible?
cheers,
richard


Yes, K-3 camera have forward trace only.

But, if you need re-winding ( running of film in reverse ) or unwind film at short distance for trick effects, i recommed russian 16 mm cine camera Kiev-16UE.
Kiev-16 UE have electrical motor with forward and reversal trace, have two film counters, at meters and at frames.

The first edition of russian 16SP camera had reversal trace too, but, the filmmagazines had problem at reversal winding and next edition of camera lost of this function.

Kinro-16 SX-2M can be run at reversal trace too.
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#5 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 07:21 PM

Yes, K-3 camera have forward trace only.

But, if you need re-winding ( running of film in reverse ) or unwind film at short distance for trick effects, i recommed russian 16 mm cine camera Kiev-16UE.
Kiev-16 UE have electrical motor with forward and reversal trace, have two film counters, at meters and at frames.

The first edition of russian 16SP camera had reversal trace too, but, the filmmagazines had problem at reversal winding and next edition of camera lost of this function.

Kinro-16 SX-2M can be run at reversal trace too.


Hi Olex,
indeed this image was made using a Kiev-16-UE and double exposing with a mask in front of the lens:


from my film 'ironwood'.

In fact, you sold me the sprint motor for this camera (but it is only with the electric motor that it can run in reverse).
many thank,
richard

Attached Images

  • ironwood2_small.JPG

Edited by Richard Tuohy, 15 September 2008 - 07:26 PM.

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