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Super8 Ballet Performance


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#1 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 03:12 PM

Here's a sample of Vision2 Super8 shot during a live Ballet Performance. The project was mainly shot on DV, almost 2 hrs. During the performance I shot 4 carts of 200T and 500T, and here's a short sample:

Super8 Ballet sample

Camera: Beaulieu 4008 ZMII
Film: Kodak Vision2 200T & 500T
Lab: AlphaCine
Transfer: CinePost
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:49 PM

I'm surprised nobody has had any questions. Was that all super-8? I don't understand how you got a "one to one" film frame to video frame throughout the entire piece. Wouldn't there be a doubling effect every fourth frame? I advanced you clip frame by frame and none of the frames are doubled, how is that possible?

If that is all super-8, that is some amazing super-8 film negative processing being done by Alpha Cine.


Here's a sample of Vision2 Super8 shot during a live Ballet Performance. The project was mainly shot on DV, almost 2 hrs. During the performance I shot 4 carts of 200T and 500T, and here's a short sample:

Super8 Ballet sample

Camera: Beaulieu 4008 ZMII
Film: Kodak Vision2 200T & 500T
Lab: AlphaCine
Transfer: CinePost


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#3 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 01:59 PM

The online sample is all Super8, 24fps, with pulldown removed (reversed telecined). All of it was shot at 24fps except the slow motion scene that was shot at 70fps. The film was scanned directly onto a QuickTime file. By doing a reverse telecine, and conforming to 24fps, one gets back a progressive QT file that contains no frame blending nor interlacing. This is the current workflow at my studio (where post and editing were done) for film projects.

For the DV version, the pulldown on the Super8 film was kept. This simplifies the editing process when mixing small bits of film with SD NTSC material.

I shot almost 10 minutes of Super8 and used most of it in the final cut. The Director of the Ballet School loved the Super8 footage, and many people approached me the day of the shoot to ask what kind of camera was I using and why was I using film. It was really enjoyable.
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#4 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:11 PM

I guess I don't understand how super-8 footage shot at 24 FPS can appear to not have any double frames at all unless the procedure you followed is specifically for a certain kind of playback. For instance, reverse telecine will not work on any interlace transmission?

Do you have any sequences in which you cut between DV and super-8?
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#5 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 01:04 PM

The clip online is running (playing back) at 24 fps. When it was telecined it was captured into a 29.97 NTSC file, it's at this step that the interlacing and the extra frames are added. For viewing online there's no need to keep the footage telecined, LCD monitors can display progressive material natively. So doing a reverse telecine gives back a true progressive clip without artifacts, and one that matches the negative frame by frame.
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#6 Joe Briggs

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 05:01 PM

The link doesn't contain a video. The page comes up blank... The page loads but the space for the video is just blank gray...

Edited by Joe Briggs, 23 September 2008 - 05:02 PM.

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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 06:26 PM

The link doesn't contain a video. The page comes up blank... The page loads but the space for the video is just blank gray...


I just clicked on it and it played.
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#8 Will Montgomery

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 07:09 PM

It's quicktime, you need to have that installed on your computer. Download iTunes and it will take care of that.

Amazed at how low the grain and noise was for such a low light project.
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 02:00 PM

....LCD monitors can display progressive material natively. So doing a reverse telecine gives back a true progressive clip without artifacts, and one that matches the negative frame by frame.


This is what is throwing me off, I am not viewing the image on an LCD monitor. Shouldn't I be seeing either flicker OR a repeat frame every four frames?
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#10 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 02:19 PM

That's interesting Alessandro, what type of display are you using to view the clip?

I've uploaded a few frame grabs from the final cut, these show the beautiful grain texture of the original which is somewhat lost, along with some detail, when the clip is encoded for the web (H.264)

Frame Grabs of Super8 Ballet Performance
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#11 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:07 AM

That's interesting Alessandro, what type of display are you using to view the clip?

I've uploaded a few frame grabs from the final cut, these show the beautiful grain texture of the original which is somewhat lost, along with some detail, when the clip is encoded for the web (H.264)

Frame Grabs of Super8 Ballet Performance



It's a sony multiscan 500PS trinitron from the mid 90's. Apparently when this monitor cost well over a thousand dollars. It actually has BNC component connectors on it. Maybe the multiscan is set in such a way as to minimize flicker???

I bought it used for 12 bucks and didn't really have to adjust anything, it's an excellent monitor for color correction and contrast work.
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#12 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 02:02 PM

It's a sony multiscan 500PS trinitron from the mid 90's. Apparently when this monitor cost well over a thousand dollars. It actually has BNC component connectors on it. Maybe the multiscan is set in such a way as to minimize flicker???

I bought it used for 12 bucks and didn't really have to adjust anything, it's an excellent monitor for color correction and contrast work.



I'd guess that this CRT monitor is displaying a progressive signal from your computer. Normally, one only sees interlacing in SD NTSC monitors while all computer monitors will display a progressive signal.
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#13 Ryan Ball

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 12:31 AM

What exactly is a reverse telecine?
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#14 Ira Ratner

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 09:56 AM

If you're shooting on negative film, it's reversed to positive in Telecine.

Edited by Ira Ratner, 05 October 2008 - 09:56 AM.

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#15 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:25 PM

What exactly is a reverse telecine?



When transferring film to videotape the difference between framerates has to be accounted for. Film is assumed to run at 24 fps and NTSC video at 29.97. This was solved many years ago by adding one frame to the film during the transfer, along with making the material interlaced.

Reverse Telecine removes this extra frame and the interlacing that were introduced during the transfer.

But more to your point, it is a process and can be done either on hardware or software. In my case I use software, Cinema Tools which is part of Final Cut Studio.

Edited by Rafael Rivera, 06 October 2008 - 01:28 PM.

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