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500T stock


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#1 Colm Whelan

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 12:22 PM

got a super 8 question. am about to shoot a doc and want to include some super 8mm. I will be picking essentially B-roll stuff to evoke some past experiences of the subjects. which means shooting a mixture of daytime and low light night time stuff. I'm leaning towards 500T obviously for the night time stuff as it will be unlit or using available from street lamps and car lights and things. if the camera sets it for 250 am I then overexposing by a full stop and need to compensate. also has anyone got any recommendations for a good contrasty multi purpose daytime and interior lit stock.
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:56 PM

got a super 8 question. am about to shoot a doc and want to include some super 8mm. I will be picking essentially B-roll stuff to evoke some past experiences of the subjects. which means shooting a mixture of daytime and low light night time stuff. I'm leaning towards 500T obviously for the night time stuff as it will be unlit or using available from street lamps and car lights and things. If the camera sets it for 250 am I then overexposing by a full stop and need to compensate.


You can probably get away with a 250 setting since all that will happen at night is any light source will just overexpose while the darker parts of the scene will read end up reading better.


also has anyone got any recommendations for a good contrasty multi purpose daytime and interior lit stock.


Probably the Vision 200T is your ideal bet. I found I could use it outdoors in contrasty situations and then during transfers at Spectra Film and Video I found they could either make it look contrasty, or minimize the contrast to a greater degree than if I had shot reversal super-8. I didn't even use an 85 filter when I shot outdoors either!

then of course for lit interiors it makes sense as well.
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#3 Colm Whelan

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 04:27 AM

You can probably get away with a 250 setting since all that will happen at night is any light source will just overexpose while the darker parts of the scene will read end up reading better.




Probably the Vision 200T is your ideal bet. I found I could use it outdoors in contrasty situations and then during transfers at Spectra Film and Video I found they could either make it look contrasty, or minimize the contrast to a greater degree than if I had shot reversal super-8. I didn't even use an 85 filter when I shot outdoors either!

then of course for lit interiors it makes sense as well.

thanks so much. that was what I was going for so its nice to get a second opinion
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#4 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:05 PM

You can check out some samples I have shot of Vision2 200T and 500T:

200T: Beaulieu 4008 Test
Shot in San Francisco in late afternoon on an overcast day. You'll see 2 clips, before and after color correction.

500T & 200T: Ballet Performance
Shot with a Beaulieu 4008 during a live performance using both stocks.
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#5 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:24 PM

thanks so much. that was what I was going for so its nice to get a second opinion


I should add one bit of caution about the 85 filter. If you are shooting Vision 200T with white overcast clouds in the shot, the Vision 200T may go slightly orange when the sky is color corrected during a rank cintel transfer. However, I don't know if that means if you shoot with an 85 filter that that would necessarily give a better overall result, but it might.

The general rule is if you have blue skys I don't think one needs the 85 filter with Vision Stocks as long as the film can be color corrected during the transfer to video.
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#6 JB Guillot

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 03:12 AM

You can check out some samples I have shot of Vision2 200T and 500T:

200T: Beaulieu 4008 Test
Shot in San Francisco in late afternoon on an overcast day. You'll see 2 clips, before and after color correction.

500T & 200T: Ballet Performance
Shot with a Beaulieu 4008 during a live performance using both stocks.

I was just wondering how you set the camera to expose the 500T on a Beaulieu 4008 which is "only" 400 ASA. Could you give more information about that ?
Thanks
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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 03:45 AM

I was just wondering how you set the camera to expose the 500T on a Beaulieu 4008 which is "only" 400 ASA. Could you give more information about that ?
Thanks


Setting the ASA to 400 for a 500 ASA film is a perfectly fine thing to do.
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#8 JB Guillot

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 07:17 AM

Setting the ASA to 400 for a 500 ASA film is a perfectly fine thing to do.

Thanks ;)

Are there any corrections that need to be done (manual aperture to expose the film "correctly" ?...) in this case ?
Or just tell the lab that the film was under-exposed ?
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 07:27 AM

Thanks ;)

Are there any corrections that need to be done (manual aperture to expose the film "correctly" ?...) in this case ?
Or just tell the lab that the film was under-exposed ?


If you set the camera ASA to 400, you would actually be slightly overexposing the film, and that is fine for Vision stocks.
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#10 JB Guillot

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 10:14 AM

If you set the camera ASA to 400, you would actually be slightly overexposing the film, and that is fine for Vision stocks.

:rolleyes: I was a bit sleepy...I wrote underexpose instead of overexpose

Anyway, if it works fine like this...I'll give it a try ! Thanks :)
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#11 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 01:48 PM

I was just wondering how you set the camera to expose the 500T on a Beaulieu 4008 which is "only" 400 ASA. Could you give more information about that ?
Thanks


JB: I use the camera in "Manuel" and use an external light meter for all films I shoot with the 4008.

You could use the "Auto" mode and set the 400 speed on the first, small white dot to the right of the main Green dot. This would give you 1/2 stop overexposure. You can also put the camera into "Auto", point at your subject, let the camera adjust the aperture, and switch back to "Manuel", this way the aperture will stay the same even if you pan.

Of course, all the above implies that the lightmeter cell is working properly. When I had my camera serviced the engineer told me that the cell in mine was off.
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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 02:04 PM

Most indoor situations will result in f-stops of 2.0 or wider, (meaning 1.4, or 1.2) even with the Vision stocks.

However there are exceptions. White Spotlights on performers on stage can cause overexposure that might actually blow out detail. However, negative is the best stock for possibly saving detail even in the overexposed parts of the scene.

The more you iris down for interiors, the more likely you are to get pure black in the background. Ideally, use a spot meter or incident meter, but if you are in a guess mode and are not flooding the scene with a ton of light, F 2.0 is probably a safe bet.
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#13 Jim Carlile

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 02:53 AM

Remember though that most automatic metering systems will not be able to take advantage of the ASA 500 speed. The best they will do is read the film at ASA 160, often at ASA 100-- like the older Nizos. Only the more advanced cameras that read up to ASA 400 will read V500's speed indice accurately.

One stop overexposure is actually good. It's the way Kodak sets it up.
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#14 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 03:34 AM

Remember though that most automatic metering systems will not be able to take advantage of the ASA 500 speed.....


I think I know what you mean, but the way you phrased it might confuse some people.

Some super-8 cameras may not be able to read an ASA 500 film stock, but the film stock will still perform the same in low light situations as another camera that can read the ASA film stock correctly. The bottom line is both cameras are probably going to read a low lit room as the f-stop being wide open.

Manual exposure can always be used as a fall back plan if the camera has a manual exposure option.
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#15 Colm Whelan

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 07:48 AM

some great advice on here. now I need to find somewhere to get my hands on a manual for a canon 1014 autozoom electronic. and figure out how or if it will cope with 500T as they want me to shoot lots of night time stuff with it. anyone got any ideas?
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#16 KyleRepka

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 08:10 AM

some great advice on here. now I need to find somewhere to get my hands on a manual for a canon 1014 autozoom electronic. and figure out how or if it will cope with 500T as they want me to shoot lots of night time stuff with it. anyone got any ideas?


http://www.apecity.c...uals/index.html
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#17 Colm Whelan

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 10:55 AM

Thanks Kyle, but it doesnt have the manual for the 1014 electronic. tried there already. apparently the camera figures out the film speed from the magazine. can this be right? how do I know how its rating 500T? and there does not appear to be any switch tungsten to daylight. all very confusing
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#18 Jim Carlile

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:45 AM

Some super-8 cameras may not be able to read an ASA 500 film stock, but the film stock will still perform the same in low light situations as another camera that can read the ASA film stock correctly. The bottom line is both cameras are probably going to read a low lit room as the f-stop being wide open.
Manual exposure can always be used as a fall back plan if the camera has a manual exposure option.


Kodak speed notches V500 at ASA 400 and supplies it in a notchless cartridge. What this does is set the meter at ASA 250 for this film, but only in those cameras that can read ASA 400.

Most don't, so what will happen is that the meter will read it as high as it can go, which might be ASA 250, maybe even ASA 160. So, with the notchless cartridge, the meter will be set to the daylight compliment of that specific speed-indice, which is always going to be 2/3 stop lower. In other words, 400 --> 250; 250 --> 160; 160 --> 100, etc.

So, this ASA 500 film could be rated as low as ASA 100 in some cameras, which is way overexposed. With the 400 --> 250 set up that Kodak has it at, it will only be one-stop overexposed (ASA 250 is one-stop down from ASA 500.)

So, V500 film might be a problem in some cameras and situations. But if there's really low light, it won't matter-- the meter will be cranked open anyway and the scene can still use the extra speed.
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#19 Will von Tagen

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 02:02 AM

Hi, you can look at this link. It is an 8 mill project I shot using 64t and Vision 2: 200t and 500t. All the night shots were done on 500t at 4 in the morning using only available street lamps. Very grainy, but looks and exposed great (shot with a Canon 1014 E). Interior shots were the 200t and all out doors were done at 64t.

Watch in high Quality.


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#20 Matthew Buick

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 04:57 PM

You can probably get away with a 250 setting since all that will happen at night is any light source will just overexpose while the darker parts of the scene will read end up reading better.


You could always try framing to eliminate particularly strong highlights, e.g. streetlamps. A full stop overexposure will certainly give you a richer denser image.
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