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400 footers to 100' daylight spools


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#1 Jeremy Rumas

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:48 AM

Hello, I have access to some 16mm 400' rolls of Fujifilm, but my camera only accepts 100' daylight spools. I am planning on respooling onto some 100 foot daylight spools. I know it has to be in the complete dark, and dust will be introduced...this is ok as I don't mind a gritty look.

Film edge numbers are important to me, and will play a vital role in the editing process down the road. Seeing this, should I first wind the film onto a take up reel, then rewind onto the 100 foot spools? Seems like this would be the way to go.

thanks,

Jeremy
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#2 Ian Cooper

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 12:31 PM

...should I first wind the film onto a take up reel, then rewind onto the 100 foot spools? Seems like this would be the way to go...


Unless you have double-perf film, you'll need to do this (spool then re-spool) anyway so the perfs are the correct side spool for the film to pass through the camera.

Respooling 400ft cores onto 100ft spools is something I've done a couple of times with no problems, just be careful to exclude all light from the room you're in, and keep everything clean and to hand.
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#3 Will Montgomery

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:14 PM

Do you have a local lab you trust? They might do that for you if you promise to process it with them.
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#4 Ira Ratner

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:32 PM

Why do it to a take-up real first?

All you have to do is calculate the frame math backwards later on.

Come to think of it, that sounds like a PITA, but considering what you're doing, it may be worth it, as opposed to spooling it that extra time.
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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:45 PM

First thing you do is get a pair of rewinds like Moviola or Neumade and find a place you can make light proof like a closet or windowless bathroom. Then you need a 400 ft empty reel or a 16mm core and a mica take up plate thing (I forget what they call them). 400 ft daylight spools are easy and cheap. Then you need 100 ft daylight spools at least 4 per roll with cans. You slide the end of the raw stock into the slot on the empty 400 ft spool and put that on the rewind with the full spool on the other rewind and wind the load onto the empty spool or "spool" it onto the empty 400 ft spool so the edge numbers will be corrects as you re-spool the raw stock back onto the 100 foot spools in a completely dark area. Cut the film when the 100 ft spool is filled and put it into a can, tape the can edge with grip tape then move onto the next one It's pretty easy though a little time consuming and you do have to be careful not to touch the film anywhere but the edge (and STILL use white cotton gloves made for handling film), scratch the film or let ANY light in what so ever. You also do have to be very careful with factory edge numbers as they do repeat on different rolls of film so it could screw you up if you're not careful. B)

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 22 September 2008 - 10:48 PM.

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#6 Jeremy Rumas

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 01:09 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Also, are Fujifilm 400 footers straight out of the can on cores thus needing a split reel, or are they already on a reel/spool of some sort?

thanks,

Jeremy
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#7 Ian Cooper

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 01:49 AM

Jeremy:

I think you'll find everything you get as 400ft will be on a core, no matter who the manufacturer is.



Ira:

The reason for the respool is to get the perfs orientated correctly to go through the camera.

If you visulise your K3: The feed spool is at the top and the film feeds off it in a clockwise direction, from the bottom of the spool. The perfs are at the bottom of the film, nearest the camera body. Having passed through the gate the film winds up on the take-up spool, again in a clockwise direction.

If you were to take a full take-up spool of film out of the camera and put it on the feed side, you would have to turn it over to make the film feed off from the bottom of the spool. This flip would also mean the perfs are now at the top of the film, furthest away from the camera body.

This is the reason for the double spool onto a temporary reel before finally going back on the 100ft daylight spool. If you have double-perf film then it doesn't matter, as when you flip the spool you'll still have a row of perfs in the correct place to go through.

I have a fogged roll of 2R film which I use for testing and putting through the camera etc as it means I never have to respool it after passing it through the camera.
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 07:36 AM

Also, even if it were 2R film, you'd need to wind it twice to get the keycodes going in the correct directoin for non-linear editing purposes. Didn't see this mentioned in amongst the body of current posts. . .
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#9 Ira Ratner

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 06:15 PM

Man--do I have a lot to learn.

I just thought that you would be able to transfer it from the 400 reel to 100s and still keep the perfs and real orientation in the correct place.
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#10 Clive Tobin

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 07:08 PM

Man--do I have a lot to learn.

I just thought that you would be able to transfer it from the 400 reel to 100s and still keep the perfs and real orientation in the correct place.

Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but a "100 foot" spool of film actually has about 109 feet on it for loading and unloading in subdued light. So you can't get 4 full normal camera spools from a 400 foot core load.
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#11 Evan Pierre

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 12:13 AM

Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but a "100 foot" spool of film actually has about 109 feet on it for loading and unloading in subdued light. So you can't get 4 full normal camera spools from a 400 foot core load.


Well that just means he will have 91 feet to shoot with. :lol:
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#12 Sean McHenry

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 10:36 AM

Not worrying about the edge codes myself, I have 24+ 400' cans in the mini-fridge here and have been happily experimenting for the past year with a set of rewinds in my basement office/editing suite. Somewhere about 1am normally (I'm a big time night owl) I pull out the rewinds, drop the 400' core onto the right rewind, load a 100' on the left and backwind it till it's about right (by feel normally). Once I have the footage about right, pull the 400' core off, load it back into the black plastic bag, can it and then drop another 100 daylight reel on the right rewind and wind it up again. This isn't rocket science for me as this is all for the Bolex Rex1 and my K3, and used for the experimental shorts I have been making lately.

As a clue, it takes about 43 cranks to load up a 100' reel on my rewinds. I try not to spin them too fast in case of static and yes, watch out for stray pet hairs that cling to pretty much everything, especially fine cat hair and short haired dogs. I have a whippet and the stuff is everywhere. Like I said, for me it's all play time so I am not too concerned with the codes or dust issues but yes, for the pros, it's dicey unless you take it to a lab I would think. If you are playing, like me, give it a shot but yes, one way or another, you 'll end up winding it back and forth. I like the 400 reel idea. Saves wear and tear on the brain too.

Sean

Edited by Sean McHenry, 04 December 2008 - 10:38 AM.

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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 11:25 AM

Man--do I have a lot to learn.

I just thought that you would be able to transfer it from the 400 reel to 100s and still keep the perfs and real orientation in the correct place.


If you think about it, tail-out single-perf film won't go back in the camera because the perfs are now on the wrong side for the sprockets. You have to rewind it to get them right.
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