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#1 Paul Bruening

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 11:38 AM

I've been muddling (no collection agents hassle you for muddling) over features of Eyemos, Konvas 1Ms and 2Ms. Being a Mitchell man, I have feelings of "mobility anxiety". The Mickies are just plain big and heavy. The blimp is a friggin' tank.

Here are my questions:

Can you put the front of a 2M together with the back of a 1M? I don't need the 1M's turret. I prefer the 2M's smaller, single lens mount front along with its OCT19 mount. But, I still want the simpler, old 1M's straight-back viewfinder. I especially want the 1M's spring motor system (spring motors are rare, unfortunately).

What is the actual amount of Kodak stock you can stick into a 60m mag when you use the Konvas core? I'd like to hear from someone who has actually crammed the maximum amount into one. I don't mind the idea of running a 1M in skip frame, 2-perf using one of Raf's 2-perf gates. I just would like to get the maximum run times possible on each pass figured out. Skip frame isn't practical on an Eyemo since you take a chance of more stray light with the daylight loads. At least with the Konvas, you've got the chance of lining up the second pass without stray lighting the whole roll. Plus the Konvas gets twice the skip-frame runtime per pass than an Eyemo.

Just how loud is a 1M or 2M? I've read around the web on this. It seems the 1 and 2Ms are in the same ball park as the Arri IIs and Eyemos. I'm thinking that well contoured closed cell foam and a form fitting fiberglass blimp would be light enough, small enough and cheap enough to do the job... well enough.

Can you video tap a 2M in such a way that the tap camera doesn't poke straight out of the body? I like the top mount tap but it looks like the kind of thing that I would easily knock off.

What's your thoughts on this, fellas?
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#2 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 02:29 AM

DUDE, ya shoulda called me asked me this stuff. The Konvas with a straight viewfinder is the Konvas-1 not the IM The IM has an orientable viewfinder (UNLESS you can find some weird intermediate camera that was built with elements of both,which is possible, the Soviets did poop like that sometimes if they had spare parts). That said the front plate where the lens mount is should be interchangeable between the 3 cameras IF you have the newer style Konvas-1(the older style had a different camera body more similar to an Eclair from which it was copied). Be advised though, the reason they put the orientable viewfinder on the 1M (among other reasons) is because it's a pain in the ass to use the 400 ft mags on the camera (the eye cup presses right up against the mag side, I know I tried it and have the 1) which IF you want the maximum amount of film would be the way to go. The Konvas-1 also use 6 volt rheostat motors with a single cog drive mechanism which are impossible to convert to run sync and a SUPER pain in the ass to change over to the more modern style Konvas drives (I know I checked into it because My 1 is in such perfect condition).

Once you have the new front plate, (there are some PL mount ones that come up on ebay every once in a while though I don't remember a front 2M plate ever coming up in the years I've been watching this stuff though Raf, Bruce at aranda or Olex might be able to find you one.) it should be a sipmle matter to change out though you will have to check tolarences very carfully. I don't know for sure exactly how much film will stuff into a 200ft mag but 200 ft will fit with Konvas cores, 175 ft will fit with Raf's Kodak core adapters installed. There is probably no true set number because often in the Soviet Union, these mags were sometimes slightly different tolerance-wise and because of the way these mags thread with the loops, it's probably not a good idea to let them bind up by over stuffing one. Go with 200 ft and you'll be safe. The sound of the camera running on the other hand is, well, unusual. It sounds like a freakin' blender. It runs at 55 DBs, louder than Hell. The reason they made the newer Konvas 1M and 2M s sound sync is that the Russians had a tradition of looping their dialog in post so there was no need to have a quiet camera. I have never seen a decent blimp for a Konvas. There was one unfinished one that someone had posted picture on at the old Commiecam site (man, I sure miss that site) so they might be over at the Konvas.org site now (that's where all the commiecam content went to) so you might look sit up over there. I have no doubt though I ANYONE can build a decent blimp for one it would be you or Hal.

I've seen a couple of tap solutions at the old Commiecam site May also look for those at Konvas.org) but top mount seems to be the one that is most common which means it's probably the way to go. You could always put a mirror or prism on the tap and lay the video camera flat alone the top of the body. Raf makes a "order on demand" video tap that sits in the viewfinder hole but you have to remove the viewfinder and frame with the tap, however it is a simple, elegant solution. I suppose you could use a beam-splitter mirror mounted in an extension from the viewfinder so that the tap could run parallel to the viewfinder tube though the viewfinder as with MOST commiecams is already somewhat dark, that might work.

Here's a couple of sites for you to check out:

http://www.konvas.info/v/admin/

http://konvas.org/index.php

http://www.geocities.com/kinor35/

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 02 October 2008 - 02:34 AM.

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#3 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 04:17 AM

OH and ol' buddy, spring motors for the Konvas-1 aren't rare, they are OBSCENELY rare!!!! You might as well be looking for a 1 cent Magenta or at the very least a first airmail upside down Jenny" stamp. I don't know of anyone who even HAS one much less would sell it, however the hand cranks come up from time to time. The animation crank though is another item I've never seen for sale. FORTUNATELY my Konvas-1 camera package came with ALL that except of course the illusive spring motor. I, myself hope to one day own one of these stripped apes so I can actually say I have a complete package with ALL the accessories. :D

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 02 October 2008 - 04:22 AM.

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#4 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 06:09 PM

Hey Paul,

I think James covered most of it, but here are a few tidbits that I know:

Teh 60m mags are really a pain. I hear they contain about 150- 170 ft with the Raf-Kodak core adapter. I have a ton of them and the core adapters, but I always end up just loading a 400' mag because they are easier to use and I don't have to worry about film lengths. But I think the 400' mag is incompatible with the early 6v/spring motor models.

I have seen a number of conversions where a PL or Nikon mount is added to the turret models. Just have a new turret made with any mounts you want. How about a Mitchell or Nikon? Don't recall the FFD, about 55mm? I'm sure it's somewhere on the Konvas.org site.

My 2M is not by nature all that noisy (it is an MOS camera though). Mine happened to be new, and I had Bernie @ Super16 service it before I ran it. Everyone who has heard it that knew the Konvas noise stories commented that it "wasn't as loud as I thought it would be." Not much different than a IIC in good condition. Many Konvas shooters have, through barney techniques and careful camera and mic placement, shot sync material effectively. Though you won't be able to do that with the early Konvas because they have no sync motors that will hook up to them, as the motor coupling differs from the later models (1M, 2M).

As far as video taps, I wish I had a better one. I have heard of internally mounted ones, but I don't know where it get one. I don't like the one I have sticking out of the top. I'm going to get one of Rafael's vid cameras that plugs into the viewfinder port. You loose the optical viewfinder but it doesn't poke out and the orientation of the image will be correct. I had Bernie do his "Laserbrighten" process to my groundglass, so it is reasonably bright.

Good luck. Like you said, dreaming is free; I would add that early Konvi are cheap. There's a guy on ebay that has been selling complete 1M kits on ebay for about a grand. Send Olex a few hundred euro's for a crystal modification and you've got a nice set-up.

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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 01:07 AM

Hey Bruce, just to let ya know, I had the same question about using a 400 ft mag on the Konvas-1 with the 6vt motor (I don't know about the spring motor but I doubt if it would have the umph to pull a 400 foot load), so I checked with Olex and he told me the camera would pull the load no problem so they are SORTA compatible, the real problem is the straight viewfinder, it does press against the 400 ft mag side.

Now because I am going to shoot anamorphic on Blood Moon Rising, I bought a de-anamorphic viewfinder for the little Konvas. The longer de-anamorphic viewfinder solved the problem because the eye cup extended out past the back of the mag a ways so the 400 ft mags fit it nicely now which makes me wonder if one could build an extension for the standard viewfinder to solve the problem.

Hey if you decide to get rid of those 200 ft mags you've got with the adapters, let me know. We'll be shooting short ends and using my Hollywood Lite streadicam with the little Konvas so I wanted to use the 200 footers because of the weight as the camera with a film load is at the edge of the weight limitation for this steadicam. Thanks-Steve
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#6 Paul Bruening

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 02:51 PM

Hey fellas,

Thanks for all the info. What do you think of running a 1M or 2M in skip frame (2-pass) 2-perf with one of Raf's Techniscope gates? Couldn't you just mark your first frame with a hole punch, load the mag, line up the first pass on the hole, run it, rewind it in a dark room, use the punch hole to get the frames in the ball park during second loading, close it up, hand turn the gear until the next frame set is aligned for putting on the camera and run the second pass. Is that doable?

To my way of thinking (cheap) this could provide a useful 2-perf hand held camera that's still small enough to blimp and run short ends.

Also: What do you think are the chances that the spring works could be pulled out of a junker Filmo and rigged into a 1m?
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#7 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 09:05 PM

Hmmm. I don't know Paul, would it be worth all the effort?

Let's say short ends are 5-10 cents a foot, processing is 8-10 cents a foot... so say $40 for a 200' load. If you did the skip frame thing you'ld save $20, risk ruining the footage you shot previously, double the chance of scratching/dust/dirt/hairs and have the pleasure of running your footage through a set of rewinds in the dark. Not to mention spending a couple hundred on the gate to begin with. Interesting idea, but it just seems as though too many things can go wrong.

I don't have a 2 perf Konvas, and some people ask about one to complement the 2 perf Kinor. I suggest they shoot 4 perf and crop it to 2 perf in post, because it just isn't worth the money or hassle for a small amount of footage.

Anders Banke has someone that will konvert the Konvi to 2 perf if he gets sent 5 at a time for a decent price. If anyone else is interested I'd be in for one. Otherwise G'day Bruce McNaughton gets about $5k to do the conversion last time I contacted him. I should have bought the 2 perf Arri IIb with an OCT19 hard front that Anders sold a couple of years ago for under $2k.

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#8 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 02:42 AM

Hey fellas,

Thanks for all the info. What do you think of running a 1M or 2M in skip frame (2-pass) 2-perf with one of Raf's Techniscope gates? Couldn't you just mark your first frame with a hole punch, load the mag, line up the first pass on the hole, run it, rewind it in a dark room, use the punch hole to get the frames in the ball park during second loading, close it up, hand turn the gear until the next frame set is aligned for putting on the camera and run the second pass. Is that doable?

To my way of thinking (cheap) this could provide a useful 2-perf hand held camera that's still small enough to blimp and run short ends.

Also: What do you think are the chances that the spring works could be pulled out of a junker Filmo and rigged into a 1m?


2 perf techniscope Konvas, I'd stay away from them because then you'll have to make a BORSCHT-Western. and NOBODY wants that! :rolleyes: I have no idea if a junker Filmo spring works could be rigged into a 1m (you'd probably have better luck with a Konvas-1 because you can find a hand crank for it so modifying the hand crank to mount the Filmo spring clockwork should be relatively easy) but if it CAN be done, you my friend could do it. B)
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#9 victor huey

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 02:54 AM

Hey Bruce, How much will the Konvas conversion cost? I'd be interested if it can be done at a reasonable price. HOw is the anders 2 perf Kinor 35H rig holding up?

Victor
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#10 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 03:01 AM

Hey Bruce, How much will the Konvas conversion cost? I'd be interested if it can be done at a reasonable price. HOw is the anders 2 perf Kinor 35H rig holding up?

Victor


Victor!

I looked over the comment I got from Anders, and he said the 2 perf conversion would be costly, so I am figuring $3-4k per body as a guess. He also suggested that it might be less expensive to get an Arri IIc body converted with an OCT19 hard front. But I still like the idea of the Konvas conversion, all my Konvas accessories would fit. Let me know if you think that ballpark is reasonable.

The 2 perf Kinor 35H body is doing great. It's been out on a good number of rentals now and is working like a champ. I'm happy with it. There's a lot more 2 perf awareness out there.

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#11 Paul Bruening

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 07:55 AM

The 2 perf Kinor 35H body is doing great. It's been out on a good number of rentals now and is working like a champ. I'm happy with it. There's a lot more 2 perf awareness out there.


What's the noise like on your 2-perf 35H?
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#12 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 02:22 AM

What's the noise like on your 2-perf 35H?


It's quiet. It's not silent. I've been meaning to get a barney made for it, but I also haven't had anyone complain about the noise level. I shot a quiet dialog scene on a soundstage with no perceptable camera noise in the sound recording. The 35S is supposed to make less noise, but the 35H seems acceptable.

There is also a rumor that 2 perf cameras are quieter than their 4 perf counterparts (moving less film and all). I have not found that to be true, my 4 perf and 2 perf sound identical.

Bruce
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#13 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 03:34 AM

Kinor 35H s (location camera) are rated at 34 DBs, the Kinor 35C (studio camera) is rated at 32 DBs ( I THINK an Arri BL3 is rated at 28 DBs for comparison) of course mag condition does make a significant difference in the amount of noise a camera will put out as I'm sure you already know so a well serviced Kinor mag helps keep the sound down.

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 27 October 2008 - 03:35 AM.

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#14 Paul Bruening

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:08 AM

Still muddling. What's the story on 2M to Nikon lens mounts? Doable?
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#15 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 11:41 PM

ANYTHING is possible if you throw enough cash at the problem however, a 2m has an OCT-19 mount, it's possible that Sergey might make an OCT-19 to Nikon adapter, IF the Nikon mount is smaller than the OCT-19. I think most of his mount adapters are something like a hundred bucks plus shipping if he makes one.

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 05 June 2009 - 11:42 PM.

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#16 Paul Bruening

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 08:18 AM

Has anyone found any info on jamming the spring-wind, 1M back chassis onto a 2M front chassis piece?
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#17 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 06:40 PM

Has anyone found any info on jamming the spring-wind, 1M back chassis onto a 2M front chassis piece?


If you're trying to get a spring wound 1M with a Nikon mount on the front of it, just hardfront the Konvas turret to a Nikon mount. Sergey Kravchenko was selling PL hardfronted turret Konvai for awhile on ebay. About 2k I think he was asking.

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#18 K Borowski

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:34 AM

Paul: Not trying to be a dick, but I agree with Bruce. . . Is all this really worth it? Don't be d wise and £ foolish.
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