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K3 Problems - Help!


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#1 Terence David

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 11:58 PM

k3problem.jpg

Hi everybody,

I'm having problems loading film into my k3. As you can see from the picture, the green arrow represents which way the film should be flowing, and the red arrow helps show what is actually happening. Basically the film keeps wanting to roll around the big black capstan, instead of leading around the loop formers and into the gate. Anybody know why this is happening and how to fix?! Thanks in adavance, and sorry for the poor picture and lighting quality of the photo!

~Terence
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:31 AM

k3problem.jpg

Hi everybody,

I'm having problems loading film into my k3. As you can see from the picture, the green arrow represents which way the film should be flowing, and the red arrow helps show what is actually happening. Basically the film keeps wanting to roll around the big black capstan, instead of leading around the loop formers and into the gate. Anybody know why this is happening and how to fix?! Thanks in adavance, and sorry for the poor picture and lighting quality of the photo!

~Terence


At first, to use of manual mode of film loading.
Please, visit of my pages
http://www.geocities...film-manual.htm
my email now olex.camera@gmail.com

And forget about auto loading of film, because, the is proceude work do not fine.

As for me, K-3 fo not must have this problem.
The cog's wheel have plastic film leading between sides of cog's wheel and film do not must go round a wheel. May be, your camera do not have this leading or leading brolen.

The second idea. The leading have too big gap from wheel.
You can see plastic post, near pressure plate with two small screws.
If you unscrew of this screws, you can move of post to film gate or from film gate.
The post have pin with spring and change of position of post will chnage of pressure effort of spring to pressure plate.
Any case, if you move of post to wheel, you can deminish of gap between leading and wheel.
This can help.

Any case,i recommend to use manual mode of film loading and set of upper loop of film do not big size.
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#3 Ira Ratner

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:37 AM

Any luck yet, Terrence?
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#4 Ian Cooper

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:41 AM

My advice would be as Olex said, don't try using the auto load! The one and only time I tried, it just chewed the film trying to make the bottom loop. Ditch the loop formers as it's dead easy to load manually.

Lift the tab and swing the two guide arms out of the way, then manually drop the film into position, slide it back an forth a touch to make sure the perfs engage on the sprocket, then swing the arm closed. Remove the pressure plate, drop the film into the gate area and then replace the pressure plate. Again, slide the film back and forth a touch to ensure it engages with the pull-down claw. Finish off by passing the film past the bottom of the feed sprocket and then close that arm.

You could leave the loop formers in place to act as a guide when you form the top and bottom loops, but personally I'd spent the couple of minutes it takes to remove them permanently. There have been various posts on how to go about that.

THIS YOUTUBE CLIP shows how you'd go about it.
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#5 Terence David

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:38 AM

Thanks for your help and advice everybody!

So I tried to loading the film manually like you said Ian,and it worked....at first. But as I let it run for a bit the film ended up chewing back into the big black capstan. Rats! I'm going to remove the loop formers tonight and see if that helps any. I have 4 rolls of film I'm itching to test...this setback is driving me mad!

Ok, I'll let you all know how it goes!

Have a great weekend,

Terence
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#6 Ian Cooper

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 11:07 AM

...So I tried to loading the film manually...
...But as I let it run for a bit the film ended up chewing back into the big black capstan...


Oh dear :huh:

Was the free end of the film on the take up spool securely? Once you've threaded it in you should give a couple of turns to ensure the film is tight before putting the spool in the camera, then run the camera for a couple of seconds to ensure the top and bottom loop size remains how you sent them, and to check the film is feeding right.

So long as the perfs on the film engage with the sprocket teeth and pull-down claw, I can't immediately visualise what the problem could be.

If you're going to remove the loop formers, then you might find the information on K3CAMERA.COM useful to see how to get inside. Then towards the bottom of THIS PAGE gives some clues how to get it back together again afterwards!

A search on youtube will give a number of instructional videos on loading the K3 both with and without loop formers.
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#7 Terence David

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:01 PM

Was the free end of the film on the take up spool securely?


Yep, that was secure, and it was running wonderfully on 8fps...then I turned it up to 24 fps, and it ran fine for a bit, but then the film chewed into the sprocket/capstan.

Thanks for the info on removing the loop formers. And yeah, I found a great youtube video that shows how to remove the little buggers ,step by step.
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#8 Ira Ratner

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:19 PM

Terrence, I've had mine for 3 months and haven't shot a frame yet. But I know all about the possible loop formers headache so I bought leader and spooled to a 100' daylight reel to practice my loading. I'm going to give it a shot WITH my formers, but maybe I shouldn't.

Also, PLEASE don't shoot all 4 rolls. Do one, maybe two first.

Too expensive to pull the trigger on that many rolls for your first test.
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#9 Terence David

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:20 PM

Ira,

Yeah, definitely not going to shoot any film until I make sure everything is tops. I have some some leader as well that I "borrowed" from school and that's what the K3 has been chewing on! Let me know how everything goes and I'll do the same!
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#10 Ira Ratner

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 03:13 PM

What kind of stock will you be shooting?

Aside from these holograms I have planned, I'm going all b&w.
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#11 Terence David

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 10:58 AM

What kind of stock will you be shooting?

Aside from these holograms I have planned, I'm going all b&w.




I've worked with 7265 Plus X BW reversal, 7266 Tri X BW Reversal and 7285 Color Reversal in school, and that's what I'll be testing with the K3. In addition I got a roll of Vision 2 7218 Color Negative, so I'm really excited about testing that.

So far, my dummy film has been running fine and is no longer chewing back into the sprocket....I have loaded it almost a dozen times with no foul ups, and that's with the loop formers still attached, so I think it's safe to say the manual loading method has saved the day.

Holograms? Tell me more!
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#12 Ira Ratner

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 12:10 PM

I'll be shooting Plus-X too, as well as Spectra Film's High Contrast B&W--ASA 6!!! Funky stuff that's just fine for sunny south Florida.

For the holograms, I'll be using Ektachrome, and this is the plan, although that plan keeps changing:

I found a hologram producer that creates "motion" holograms at a very reasonable price. You correctly shoot a few seconds of a subject, like the famous "Blowing Kiss," and you supply them with 180 separate digital images. Because you only want a few seconds of motion as someone walks by the hologram, I would shoot at the K-3's maximum FPS to get the 180 images. Like, if I shot at 24, you're talking close to 8 seconds--way too much for an effective hologram. 3 to 4 seconds is plenty.

Here's the place that does them:

http://www.liti3d.com/cg_hologram.htm

I can get my digital images via Telecine, and there are Telecine guys who will give you individual frames. However, I could also just review the takes on film on my viewer/editor--no Telecine at all--and then SCAN the best take/180 frames. I would have to rig a 16mm holder for my scanner, and figure out a reasonable work flow, but because it wouldn't cost me anything, it's a route I'm exploring heavily. Although you can't get ultimate quality scanning 16mm film on most conventional scanners, this is just a hologram--and they only need it at like 500 pixels or so wide anyway. It's not like I have to scan for high quality printing.

As far as actually doing the shoot, I was going to use a dolly on a semi-circular track, which I just built out of PVC and old Rollerblade wheels. I was going to make the track out of sections of bent 1" PVC by building a jig, filling the PVC sections with sand and cap so it doesn't kink, and use a heat gun and rubber mallet to bend. The problem with this FORMER plan is that you need a large area to lay the track, and I was looking for a portable solution where I could actually do this in people's homes.

SO.......

My plan has changed to instead of rotating the camera, I'm going to rotate the subject--who will be seated on a wheeled mechanic's stool, wheels resting INSIDE a small circular track, and then turned/rotated via motor, handcrank or assistant. The stool might be rigged like a turntable--just don't know yet. I work with engineers at the Florida Dept. of Transportation who are going to come up with a cheap solution for me using off-shelf-parts. I basically want something small and portable, mounted to a piece of plywood, that I can lay down anywhere. Rotating the subject also gives you lighting and backdrop advantages--you only have to be concerned with one point of view and don't have to encircle the subject with backdrop and light.

I'm sure there's a digital video solution instead of film to doing these holograms, but since I'm getting into film, I figured what the hell. I also think I'll get quite a different look from film as opposed to video.

Anyway, that's it in a nutshell. I appreciate your input on this, and I'm going to PM you about a different subject, so check your PMs!

Edited by Ira Ratner, 12 October 2008 - 12:12 PM.

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#13 Bart Sanders

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 05:32 PM

Hello!

Just registered to this forum and read your question / problem.

I have a K3 (M42) and a K2 (bayonet). I serviced them myself and they make very fine images.

Now to your problem: it could be the sprocket wheel being out of place on its axle.

Load a small piece of film so that it runs like it's supposed to do. Now check if the sprocket teeth lie in the centre of the perf holes, use a small light to really see it well. If the sprocket teeth are on either edge of the perforation, the film may get cought by the wheel and jammed into the mechanism, instead of being fed out into the loop former etc.

Now, if so, have a look at some nice instructions on k3.com and shift the sprocket wheel into position. It only takes a good quality small screw driver and some patience. There are two small screws which need to be loosened, shift the wheel into position and tighten again.

Now, this may not be the cure, but there is nothing more which you can adjust in this area, so it's worth a try!

Regards,

Bart
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#14 Terence David

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

Hey Bart,

Thanks for the advice, sorry for such a late reply.... I got it working for a bit before I ever saw your post...but actually that's some great advice I may act on because it's starting to act up again! I've got a roll jammed in there now, arrrgh!!!

Hello!

Just registered to this forum and read your question / problem.

I have a K3 (M42) and a K2 (bayonet). I serviced them myself and they make very fine images.

Now to your problem: it could be the sprocket wheel being out of place on its axle.

Load a small piece of film so that it runs like it's supposed to do. Now check if the sprocket teeth lie in the centre of the perf holes, use a small light to really see it well. If the sprocket teeth are on either edge of the perforation, the film may get cought by the wheel and jammed into the mechanism, instead of being fed out into the loop former etc.

Now, if so, have a look at some nice instructions on k3.com and shift the sprocket wheel into position. It only takes a good quality small screw driver and some patience. There are two small screws which need to be loosened, shift the wheel into position and tighten again.

Now, this may not be the cure, but there is nothing more which you can adjust in this area, so it's worth a try!

Regards,

Bart


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Tai Audio

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Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Glidecam