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Red losing power?


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#1 Chris Gloag

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 02:35 AM

Did anyone notice reduser tonight?

Jannard posted. A few hours later, the fireman was extinguishing the fire. Thread now closed.
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#2 Keith Walters

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 05:50 AM

Did anyone notice reduser tonight?

Jannard posted. A few hours later, the fireman was extinguishing the fire. Thread now closed.


I don't understand it at all. I read the whole thread from start to finish and I couldn't see anything objectionable that would warrant shutting it down.

That Jarred Land is a strange character.
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#3 Adam Paul

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 10:34 AM

I didn't see it. What was it about?
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#4 Chris Gloag

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:03 PM

That Jarred Land is a strange character.


He's a good hoover machine. Seems that Stalinist story about deleting people...

Here is the last victim and his offense:

http://www.reduser.n...p;postcount=423

Full version:

One thing that hasn't really been mention is the high ISO/low noise of the 5d2, a characteristic that Red can only dream about. Even at 3200+ the noise is still under control on the canon, were as red starts to fall apart very early on(500). Its obviously not apples to apples we are comparing and the 5d2 cant even do a fraction of what red can do, but for a fraction of a fraction of the cost the Canon can do something the Red cant even get close to. The 5d2 is the best of breed low light video camera on the market. If you want low light video it is the only option. As for his DSMC Jim should watch his arrogance because if he dosent provide a dsmc with clean iso up to 12800, plus all the bells and whistles of the current models. The digital still world wont give him the time of day. Go read the 5d forum at dpreview 90% could care less about video they want clean high iso, Fast and accurate AF, and IQ that can out perform the highest resolution lenses on the planet. As for lenses, sorry a reworked tamron or sigma wont cut it. If you cant out resolve Canons L series or the trophies in nikons case, you dont have a chance. Mabey a soccer mom here and there but the core of this industry wont budge.

http://www.reduser.n...p;postcount=420

The original one is deleted.
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#5 Keith Walters

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 04:50 AM

He's a good hoover machine. Seems that Stalinist story about deleting people...

Bah. The whole RED saga seems to have gone off the boil lately.
AND I'm still waiting to see some real RED footage....

Hardly surprising really.
For a company trying to break into an industry that fights a constant battle against censorship, tactical lawsuits and other forms of legal intimidatation as well as a constant barrage manufacturers' BS they sure have a lot to learn.

And they think nobody is going to notice what happens on Internet forums.
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#6 Glen Alexander

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:44 AM

when did it have real power? it's all marketing hype. no substance.
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#7 John Sprung

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 01:26 PM

when did it have real power? it's all marketing hype. no substance.

Well, look at "Manure". Good looking features can be made with it. You just have to do your homework first.




-- J.S.
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#8 Glen Alexander

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 03:55 PM

Well, look at "Manure". Good looking features can be made with it. You just have to do your homework first.




-- J.S.


probably after 1.2 million reboots, 3 backup cameras etc.

10,000 man hours in post will fix a lot of problems.
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#9 Keith Walters

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 07:33 PM

Well, look at "Manure". Good looking features can be made with it. You just have to do your homework first.
-- J.S.

What cinema did you "look at" that in?

There appear to be quite a few films we could "look at", given the chance. Never seems to happen.
Still it's early days yet, but let's not drag this out too far.

As far as I am aware, all of the commercial RED footage (and by commercial I mean as in "shot with the realistic expectation of financial return") that has been reported thus far in the civilized world has been restricted to television distribution. (And if I've seen any RED footage on local TV, nobody seems to have been too keen to advertise the fact, despite the regular input from local RED enthusiasts).

So, we appear to have a revolutionary new electronic camera whose output seems exclusively restricted to television programming. We need a catchy name for it.

What about ... I know: A TeeVee camera!!
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#10 Keith Walters

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 07:42 PM

probably after 1.2 million reboots, 3 backup cameras etc.

10,000 man hours in post will fix a lot of problems.

I still think most of the RED problems reported are hardware-related, because it appears that if you do get a good one, it just works.

OK, to set up a serious Post-Production facility and a fully equipped A & B camera setup, you're probably not going to get a lot of change out of $200,000, but once you have all that in place, you should be able to turn out good quality programs with very little extra input.

Well, apart from good scripts, competent actors, lighting & Grip, directors of various sorts, set builders etc etc, but if you're smart, that becomes your customers' problem :P

All you need is customers...
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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 07:51 PM

I keep telling everyone, all you need to do is spend the 200k getting the clients drunk enough to sign anything! Problem solved.
As for the RED proper, it has to be agreed upon that it is a new tool slowly working it's way into the industry. Personally, I have no seen RED footage properly, aside from the 1080p trailer of "Knowing." Of course this is in no way a proper way to asses the footage; but given time we will begin to see RED films in their proper enviorment-- the cinema. Till then I rank the Red as an interesting hybridization inheriting a "look," rather its own. This too will morph much in the same way other formats have. Till then, personally, I won't just to any conclusions on it (though I did pass on a RED for a shoot that's going S16mm instead-- but that was for aesthetics/workflow/cost).
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#12 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:41 PM

. . . Though I did pass on a RED for a shoot that's going S16mm instead-- but that was for aesthetics/workflow/cost.


Good for you, film's where's at!

Though it would be nice to shoot RED just to get the hang of it, it may come handy at some point.
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#13 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:44 PM

I find the red look interesting; not exactly in line with my own aesthetics at this point; but i certainly understand why it is being used. There is no question it gives an interesting look and sooner or later I would like to get my hands on one (or DALSA, or a D21... or all of the above!). But i'm not going to force a project to a look; rather get a look from the project. Till I feel i have something that can benefit the aesthetic choices myself, the director, and the prod designer (or art director for ads), then I'll continue to say "RED is good, but for this look we might be better served with (insert camera here)"
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#14 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 04:00 PM

A few of you have no idea what you're talking about. Or maybe you have, but it's difficult to swallow. So many sales* for a 35mm sensor sized cinema camera. ;)

* Circa 5000.
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#15 Glen Alexander

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 10:03 PM

I heard from an excellent source that the shows on East Coast:: Law and Order. They shot and tested Red but dumped it to go with F35.

Is JJ is going to set up Red this week at the HD Expo in Burbank this week.
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#16 Keith Walters

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 10:24 PM

A few of you have no idea what you're talking about.

And most of us have no idea what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

Or maybe you have, but it's difficult to swallow. So many sales* for a 35mm sensor sized cinema camera. ;)
* Circa 5000.

Your point being?
That just means that a few thousand people (including you apparently) are convinced that the RED is a worthwhile investment. Doesn't mean that it is, and I haven't seen any "hard" evidence so far one way or the other. (Except from a certain Adult Movie Company) :lol:

And remember 5,000 is the highest serial number allocated, not necessarily the actual number of REDs delivered and paid for.

But so what? Who knows, they might eventually sell 50,000 REDs; that doesn't mean people will suddenly stop using film.

I mean, for every RED that has been sold there would be thousands of mini DV cameras sold.
So on this basis, Hollywood should switch to Mini DV?

But never mind wasting your obviously valuable time arguing with us; go out and shoot a movie or mini-series and prove us all wrong. Make Jim proud.

You sure are as hell aren't going to convince anybody by coming on a cinematography forum and pulling meaningless analogies out of your arse all the time...

Edited by Keith Walters, 25 October 2008 - 10:26 PM.

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#17 Keith Walters

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 10:34 PM

I heard from an excellent source that the shows on East Coast:: Law and Order. They shot and tested Red but dumped it to go with F35.

Is JJ is going to set up Red this week at the HD Expo in Burbank this week.


Not much of a recommendation, though.

After 19 years, the Law & Order franchise is rapidly reaching its use-by date. I used to watch or record most of them without fail, but now I just don't care anymore. The scripts are crap; they seem to now be more of an exercise in seeing who can violate the most rules of good story writing. :blink:

The fact that a show is switching from 35mm film to some other cheaper format is never an endorsement for that format.
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#18 Glen Alexander

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 10:40 PM

Not much of a recommendation, though.

After 19 years, the Law & Order franchise is rapidly reaching its use-by date. I used to watch or record most of them without fail, but now I just don't care anymore. The scripts are crap; they seem to now be more of an exercise in seeing who can violate the most rules of good story writing. :blink:

The fact that a show is switching from 35mm film to some other cheaper format is never an endorsement for that format.



Any show that has had the same audio transition since the beginning "donk, donk" should be hit on the head like "bonk, bonk"


I did hear of a story that some employee of JJ's sunglasses had taken home parts of sunglasses over a few years and had put them back together and sold them for about a million USD.

Edited by Glen Alexander, 25 October 2008 - 10:41 PM.

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#19 Keith Walters

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 01:47 AM

I did hear of a story that some employee of JJ's sunglasses had taken home parts of sunglasses over a few years and had put them back together and sold them for about a million USD.

Enterprising of them, although I'm not sure what this has to do with RED, since as far as I am aware, JJ is no longer associated with Oakley.

Usually with this sort of thing, what they swipe are actually QC rejects diverted on their way to the dump, which is why they don't show up as inventory shortages. It would take a bloody lot of parts to make $1 million worth of sunglasses though, even at Oakley's prices.

This sort of thing is common in the semiconductor industries. Useable but below-spec parts that are supposed to be sold to manufacturers with OEM labelling get re-labelled and sold as prime parts. With predictable results.

Anyway, the people responsible probably moved into upper management, sold out to Luxottica and are now living in the South of France. :lol:
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#20 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 05:58 AM

And most of us have no idea what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

Your point being?

Would you like to delete my voice over here, humm?... :lol:

Besides already known and pretty bored, your point is wasted effort... and boring. Once again, as usual coming from you. You seem to think that you represent many others like you. Not even that.

Do not worry, many others will be shooting out there. RED or 35mm, the medium can be or not be so important. You won't notice either in the finished soup. Or do you think that these boards will enlighten you about our personal careers more than anyone is in the mood for posting? Remember, you didn't pay the picket.
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