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Leader at the end of a 16 can?


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#1 Nick Centera

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:50 AM

I am new to film and was wondering if there was a leader at the end of a roll of film. I know there is a leader at the beginning of the roll so you can feed it through the camera, but what about once the roll is finished. Is the top layer of the take up film you shot, or is there a leader? If it is the film you shot, would you have to take the take up out in a black bag and put it in the can? Thanks a lot.
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#2 Chris Keth

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 01:10 AM

On a roll of factory 16mm film there is no leader on either end. It is all 'exposable' film. There is 400 feet of film on a 2" core. There is a piece of tape about 1/4" wide and 2 or 3 inches long holding the end down.

All of that is in a black bag in the can.

Edited by Chris Keth, 28 October 2008 - 01:11 AM.

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#3 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 03:36 AM

On a roll of factory 16mm film there is no leader on either end. It is all 'exposable' film. There is 400 feet of film on a 2" core. There is a piece of tape about 1/4" wide and 2 or 3 inches long holding the end down.

All of that is in a black bag in the can.

What Chris says is true but I seem to remember from my days when I worked at Kodak that each roll had what was called a 'customer allowance'; that is an additional length of film that allowed for lacing up. It was also to emilinate handling marks etc on the front and end of rolls. I think that this was 10ft. It might be that this was only on film wound on camera spools.

You could tell by checking the edge numbers on a roll of exposed film. I will try to rmember to do this when I am next in the lab.

Brian
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 03:49 AM

I am new to film and was wondering if there was a leader at the end of a roll of film. I know there is a leader at the beginning of the roll so you can feed it through the camera, but what about once the roll is finished. Is the top layer of the take up film you shot, or is there a leader? If it is the film you shot, would you have to take the take up out in a black bag and put it in the can? Thanks a lot.
-Nick


Hi,

Film is film, there is no leader! On a proffessional shoot you should allow 5' each end for lab handeling & slates, you will probably get away with far less most of the time.

Stephen
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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 03:51 AM

In the beginning (1923) all 16-mm raw stock was sold with a perforated two-colour paper head leader, black on the outside and red on the inside. This was discontinued in the 1930s. Since then you have an additional length for threading and as protection against light at the end. Verne and Sylvia Carlson have published collected data on these lengths. They state: "Agfa-Gevaert 16mm daylight spools contain approximately 108 ft. Darkroom loads contain approximately 10 ft. additional footage for threadup." "Eastman-Kodak 16mm spools contain approximately 109 ft. Darkroom loads contain approximately 10 ft. additional film for threadup." "Fuji 16mm daylight spools contain approximately 112 ft. Darkroom loads contain approximately 13 ft. additional footage for threadup." "Ilford 16mm daylight spools contain approximately 115 ft. Darkroom loads contain approximately 15 ft. additional film for threadup." (Professional Cameraman's Handbook, Amphoto, New York NY, 1970)

I have measured Fomapan R 100, 16mm darkroom loads: 406 1/2 ft.
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#6 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 04:28 AM

I think that this was 10ft.


Yep, it isn't written on the cans, but there is always an extra 10' on all rolls of film. Both Fuji and Kodak do this. I'm pretty sure it's the same with both 35 & 16.
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#7 Sam Wells

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:52 PM

Yep, it isn't written on the cans, but there is always an extra 10' on all rolls of film. Both Fuji and Kodak do this. I'm pretty sure it's the same with both 35 & 16.


Funny how the extra feet are always at the beginning <_<

Go ahead, Explain THAT by quantum mechanics :P

-Sam
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#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 03:53 PM

Funny how the extra feet are always at the beginning <_<

Go ahead, Explain THAT by quantum mechanics :P


Who said it was "at the beginning"?
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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 07:38 PM

Funny how the extra feet are always at the beginning <_<
Go ahead, Explain THAT by quantum mechanics :P

In actuall use. you will use some of the film at the start of the roll to thread the magazine, and the camera itself, test that things are running ok etc.

You then make one or more "takes" while checking the footage counter on the camera.

Once their is not enough film left for another take. The camera is run for a few seconds to make sure that the "good" exposed film is safely in the magazine. On a 100 ft rolls, you may just run ALL the film out particularly if you are already past the 85 foot mark. Otherwide you would run out 6 feet to give a "end leader"

In most cases a daylight spool with only 20 or less feet of film, will have the remaining film scrapped. But that depends on the policy of the Producer and camera deprtment.

The exposed film is then put back in the black bag in the darkroom/changing bag. The lab will likly need a couple of feet at each end to splice it up to go in the processor, and they will trim the film if needed before making a print. Some labs will cut a few feet off the end of a daylight load unless you specify that you want them to "print to the end"

If the supply of film is still enough for some kind of shot - just not the next one you are planning. (say you have shot 250 feet in one take and you are planing to shoot the same scene again , so you would be 50 feet short if you used the current roll) The remaining film is cut off and put asside as a "short end" to be used for sceens that will fit.

The film used to thread the camera is not really taken into account, as their is the "customer allowance" to cover it, Likewise the length of the short end if one is produced will often be rounded down to the next shortest 5 feet or so.
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#10 Sam Wells

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 09:37 AM

Here, I am making the joke.

-Sam
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#11 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 01:48 PM

Here, I am making the joke.

-Sam


All your base are belong to us.
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#12 Simon Wyss

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 05:17 PM

According to the old agreement of 1907 you have the right on exactly 1600 frames with the nominal 100-ft. portion (4000 frames in 16 mm). The lab people will have to respect this. It's very helpful when there is a first frame and a last frame in the row after processing. It can be so simple.
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