Jump to content


Photo

High Altitude lighting advice needed...


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 David Waters

David Waters

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 October 2008 - 11:53 AM

Greetings,

Will be a first time cinematographer on a no-budget feature shooting in the Southern California mountains in the winter. Altitude about 7500 feet.

All one location, a pretty large house and every room has rather large windows. Lighting kit is very limited.

Understand bright daylight up there will be way above 5500K.

Which would give the best results on zero-budget.

1. Roll gel the windows with an 85 filter and light with my home built small tungsten/halogen lighting kit consisting of a few lights.

2. Leave the windows naked and light with a borrowed Britek Flourescent lighting kit that has bulbs rated at 6400K.

Can't get too picky with things as I will also be operating and lighting... crew consists of just me, sound guy, the director, four actors doing their own makeup, and somebody cooking food for the three weeks we are in the house.

All responses welcome.

Thanks...
Dave
  • 0

#2 David Waters

David Waters

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 October 2008 - 12:13 PM

Greetings,

Will be a first time cinematographer on a no-budget feature shooting in the Southern California mountains in the winter. Altitude about 7500 feet.

All one location, a pretty large house and every room has rather large windows. Lighting kit is very limited.

Understand bright daylight up there will be way above 5500K.

Which would give the best results on zero-budget.

1. Roll gel the windows with an 85 filter and light with my home built small tungsten/halogen lighting kit consisting of a few lights.

2. Leave the windows naked and light with a borrowed Britek Flourescent lighting kit that has bulbs rated at 6400K.

Can't get too picky with things as I will also be operating and lighting... crew consists of just me, sound guy, the director, four actors doing their own makeup, and somebody cooking food for the three weeks we are in the house.

All responses welcome.

Thanks...
Dave



Will be shooting Regular 16mm Vision 2 250T on a CP16
  • 0

#3 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 30 October 2008 - 12:20 PM

There is no vision 2 250T that i'm aware of. The 7205 is kodaks 250 D and the 7217 is kodaks 200T.
If your'e on 250D i'd leave windows as is and correct the tungsten lights to daylight.
If you're on the 200T then gel the windows- if you want I don't really mind mixed color temperatures when necessary and use the existing bulbs.
  • 0

#4 David Waters

David Waters

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 October 2008 - 01:00 PM

There is no vision 2 250T that i'm aware of. The 7205 is kodaks 250 D and the 7217 is kodaks 200T.
If your'e on 250D i'd leave windows as is and correct the tungsten lights to daylight.
If you're on the 200T then gel the windows- if you want I don't really mind mixed color temperatures when necessary and use the existing bulbs.


Yup, 7217 mistyped 250T...
  • 0

#5 David Waters

David Waters

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 October 2008 - 01:02 PM

Yup, 7217 mistyped 250T...


There are a fair amount of practicals....
  • 0

#6 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 30 October 2008 - 01:06 PM

Gel the windows, it'll drop some light out but you can use an 85 ND combined to drop it down as needed, and then use the lighting in the house and supplement that as best you can.
If you get a chance, head up there with your meter and a DSLR; and scope it out a bit before you go in. See just how blue the daylight is coming in there and the like. Just my advice; we all have our own styles and how you light a scene will come a lot from what type of scene it is.
  • 0

#7 David Rakoczy

David Rakoczy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1579 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • USA

Posted 30 October 2008 - 01:07 PM

Gel the Windows with Full CTO and shoot Tungsten.. for sure. This is my (personally) preferred Interior Mode - Lighting Procedure.
  • 0

#8 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 30 October 2008 - 01:44 PM

Can you even get gel to stick on windows in freezing temps? I think the water you use would freeze and show bubbles, cracks, etc.

Anyway, if this is all or mostly day, why fight it? Personally, I would shoot a daylight stock and leave the windows uncorrected. I love mixing warm and cold light and this sounds like a great opportunity for it. Use all daylight units and put photofloods in all of the practicals. You can selectively warm up your lights or practicals very efficiently that way. As a bonus, a cabin isn't likely to have great power. By using HMIs you'll get the biggest bang for your power.

Edited by Chris Keth, 30 October 2008 - 01:47 PM.

  • 0

#9 David Waters

David Waters

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:01 PM

Gel the windows, it'll drop some light out but you can use an 85 ND combined to drop it down as needed, and then use the lighting in the house and supplement that as best you can.
If you get a chance, head up there with your meter and a DSLR; and scope it out a bit before you go in. See just how blue the daylight is coming in there and the like. Just my advice; we all have our own styles and how you light a scene will come a lot from what type of scene it is.


I don't think I have developed any style of working just yet.

Up until this gig it has been shooting on MiniDV (not even 24P) underexposing everything a stop then boosting contrast and saturation in post and doing a software 24p conversion with a plug in by Mr. Nattress...

I have shot some Super 8 and 16mm on my Bolex, but this is a huge leap for me and even though I'm not getting paid, I still don't want to shoot somebodies stash of film stock and screw it up with weird lighting.

I really wish the film they had was black and white. That I could deal with....

Thanks guys for all the ideas and responses.

Dave
  • 0

#10 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:23 PM

Screwing up is often the best way to learn. I highly doubt that anyone on here can honestly admit to never having screwed up. We make mistakes; we learn from them, and hell, if you're not getting paid, and so long as you were honest with them about what you can and can't do and what you think you can do, well then they can't get too mad.
Trust in the emulsion; modern stocks are pretty damned well amazing in how well they can coupe with reality. Trust in what you know and when it fails you; go with your gut.

As for the gel/window freezing. I can see that as being a bit of a problem if it gets really cold. An alternative would be to mount it on the outside of the window frames with tape/staples whatever you can get away with out there. Make it as tight as you can; of course this can cause an issue if you're looking out the windows (in focus). For such situations; might be better to shoot a grey card for a few frames; and correct in the telecine session; making any tungsten you have go over to daylight (full CTB, though personally I normally only use 1/2, but again; I like mixed lighting temps).
  • 0

#11 Daniel Porto

Daniel Porto
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 201 posts
  • Student

Posted 31 October 2008 - 07:01 PM

put photofloods in all of the practicals. You can selectively warm up your lights or practicals very efficiently that way.


What do you mean by putting 'photofloods' in the practicals Chris?

Thanks
  • 0

#12 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 31 October 2008 - 07:18 PM

What do you mean by putting 'photofloods' in the practicals Chris?

Thanks


Photofloods are a type of lightbulb that is color corrected for photographic purposes. Normal lightbulbs will look a bit warm on tungsten film and extremely warm on daylight film. You can get photofloods in tungsten balance and in daylight balance.

Edited by Chris Keth, 31 October 2008 - 07:19 PM.

  • 0


Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Technodolly

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Opal

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

CineLab

Abel Cine

Opal

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Glidecam

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products