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ND in video


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#1 Malik Sajid

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 05:22 AM

Most DV cameras have the built in ND filters in camera, ND1 and ND2 mostly.
Do they have the same affect as of other filters that are physically mounted?
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#2 Alfeo Dixon

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:13 AM

Most DV cameras have the built in ND filters in camera, ND1 and ND2 mostly.
Do they have the same affect as of other filters that are physically mounted?


Yes, typically they are CLEAR, 1/4 ND, 1/16 ND, 1/64 ND
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#3 Rob Vogt

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:42 PM

Yes, typically they are CLEAR, 1/4 ND, 1/16 ND, 1/64 ND

If they were clear they would be a UV filter. NDs vary in opacity and are black (although that's not a color in light). As in Red, Green and Blue, or Magenta, Cyan and Yellow.
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:44 AM

If they were clear they would be a UV filter. NDs vary in opacity and are black (although that's not a color in light). As in Red, Green and Blue, or Magenta, Cyan and Yellow.


So far as I'm aware it's an optical flat, rather than a UV type filter. You need to have some glass in there otherwise the lens back focus is thrown out.
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#5 Rob Vogt

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 07:42 AM

So far as I'm aware it's an optical flat, rather than a UV type filter. You need to have some glass in there otherwise the lens back focus is thrown out.

Yeah it probably is an optical flat. But in order for it to do it's main purpose it would still need to block the intensity of all wavelengths equally which is impossible if the filter is clear. That would only block out wavelengths not visible by the human eye below or above the spectrum. How they get these into the lens I'm unaware.
Do you (or anyone here), by any chance, know where the filter portion of the lens goes when it's not in use?
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#6 Evan Pierre

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 01:14 PM

Do you (or anyone here), by any chance, know where the filter portion of the lens goes when it's not in use?


What kind of camera are we talking about here?
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#7 Malik Sajid

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:42 AM

well......yah i guess its a digital function in the camera, which digitally calculates, no idea what formula or anything.

Do they perform the same function i mean like physically mount filters on still camera?
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#8 Malik Sajid

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:44 AM

and i use Sony 250p......mostly on mini DV
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#9 Evan Pierre

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:17 AM

Do you (or anyone here), by any chance, know where the filter portion of the lens goes when it's not in use?


The way I am pretty sure it works (someone who actually know PLEASE correct me if I am mistaken) is that there is a little turret right at the front interior of the housing holding a few different thicknesses of ND. When you rotate the knob it rotates the corresponding filter into place in front the of recording plane. This works because the recording plane is so small, so they can fit three or four filters that fit over the plane and fit inside the housing at the same time.

This is just what I figured from looking at a broadcast camera and using deductive reasoning, if someone actually knows how it works please correct me.

Cheers!
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#10 Malik Sajid

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 07:03 AM

hmmmm.........that might be the pretty much function.


And what effect does it do. What i felt is that they do nothing just decrease the amount of light entring in. Is this the only function of the ND?

What is the filter that clears the dust and fog in the environment and make the image look good and colorful.

The reason i am asking is because i am here in Lahore, Pakistan and environment here is dusty all the time, but still i have seen videos of Lahore which are extremely clear and colorful with no dust.
What do they do? Do they use any filter or something?
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#11 Alfeo Dixon

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 09:20 AM

And what effect does it do. What i felt is that they do nothing just decrease the amount of light entring in. Is this the only function of the ND?

What is the filter that clears the dust and fog in the environment and make the image look good and colorful.

I believe your speaking of a polarizer. Which is usually 2 1/3 Stop of light loss, which in a pinch could help to bring down your exposure, but will also ad two different effects, a polarized image cutting down on reflections and sometimes atmosphere OR a non-polarized image allowing those reflections to intensify. By rotation you can also achieve an effect somewhere in the middle of the two.

Not a substitute for an ND filter. An ND's only job is to block out its precisely measured about of light, nothing more, nothing less.

ND FILTER
POLARIZER

The reason i am asking is because i am here in Lahore, Pakistan and environment here is dusty all the time, but still i have seen videos of Lahore which are extremely clear and colorful with no dust.
What do they do? Do they use any filter or something?

Polarizers work mostly with reflective objects, particularly moisture and shiny surfaces. When I referred to some atmosphere, that is what I was referring to, the reflective properties of moisture in the air. It can enhance foliage by taking the reflection off the leaves of trees, allow you to look into windows without refections at certain angles.

Not much can be done for dust, smoke and other opaque objects in the air other than avoid back light when they are around.
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#12 Malik Sajid

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:50 AM

Arrrrrright.....

Does these filter work well with the video cameras(i normally use Sony DSR 250p and Cannon XL1), I mean can we mount the filters on video cameras?
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#13 Jim Hyslop

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:48 AM

Arrrrrright.....

Does these filter work well with the video cameras(i normally use Sony DSR 250p and Cannon XL1), I mean can we mount the filters on video cameras?

Certainly.

In answer to your earlier question about other shots of Lahore that are clear - maybe they shot just after a rainfall. And, as Alfeo said, avoid backlighting.
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#14 Malik Sajid

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:14 AM

ok....got it

Do these filter cost much?

Can we use the same filter on any video camera? or Are there seperate filters(mounts) for say Sony 250 and cannon xl 1?
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#15 Malik Sajid

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:50 AM

Did some research on internet and found the answer....

Its the mount size that varies in cameras. Sony DSR250 has the 58mm filter mount, so sony has its own filters made for 58mm thread.
On the other hand cannon XL series has different mounts, i guess its 72mm and it has its own filters.

So thats it....

I think ND and Polarizers are must for any dp, what you say?
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#16 Malik Sajid

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:50 AM

i think i reposted the reply...sorry for that

Edited by Malik Sajid, 08 December 2008 - 09:54 AM.

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#17 Alfeo Dixon

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:11 PM

I think ND and Polarizers are must for any dp, what you say?

If your buying filters... absolutely, if your renting then you must evaluate your needs and try to save where you can. Let's say your doing a zombie flick... lots of night work, then leave off the ND's and Pola until your scheduled for day work. That savings might just buy you a brownie with the PM or producer and then help down the road when you really need something special for a day or two.
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#18 DJ Kast

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 07:32 PM

hmmmm.........that might be the pretty much function.


And what effect does it do. What i felt is that they do nothing just decrease the amount of light entring in. Is this the only function of the ND?

What is the filter that clears the dust and fog in the environment and make the image look good and colorful.

The reason i am asking is because i am here in Lahore, Pakistan and environment here is dusty all the time, but still i have seen videos of Lahore which are extremely clear and colorful with no dust.
What do they do? Do they use any filter or something?

This isn't their only use. many people use them to achive less depth of field, mostly in video. The more open the apature, the less depth of field there is, so many will put an ND in, and light with more footcandles to get a desired exposure, and more falloff.
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