Jump to content


Photo

Alternatives to diffusal gel


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 November 2008 - 06:50 PM

Hi.

I need an alternative to Lee diffusal gel (expense reasons), I'm lighting a studio and wanting to hang 7 meter long lanterns to shine gelled lights down, to build various pillars of light.

I wanted to get tracing paper as it's cheap however the problem is it needs to pass a flame test, and I know it won't pass.

So far I've heard baking tray paper.

Any other ideas?



Sorry I know this is posted in the wrong place but I need answers desperatelly and the lighting section isn't as popular. I need to sort this by next thursday.

Thanks
Dan.
  • 0

#2 Mike Washlesky

Mike Washlesky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Austin,TX

Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:19 PM

Hi.

I need an alternative to Lee diffusal gel (expense reasons), I'm lighting a studio and wanting to hang 7 meter long lanterns to shine gelled lights down, to build various pillars of light.

I wanted to get tracing paper as it's cheap however the problem is it needs to pass a flame test, and I know it won't pass.

So far I've heard baking tray paper.

Any other ideas?



Sorry I know this is posted in the wrong place but I need answers desperatelly and the lighting section isn't as popular. I need to sort this by next thursday.

Thanks
Dan.



Crazy idea...suspend jars of water colored with food coloring of your choice. Gives you the flexibility of creating exactly the subtle colors you desire. And water doesnt burn last I checked. I have never done this but thought about your question for a minute. Thats what my brain came up with..as long as the jars arent moving, no shimmer. Dont know if thats cheaper or not, but a suggestion.
  • 0

#3 Mike Washlesky

Mike Washlesky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Austin,TX

Posted 25 November 2008 - 08:21 PM

Hi.

I need an alternative to Lee diffusal gel (expense reasons), I'm lighting a studio and wanting to hang 7 meter long lanterns to shine gelled lights down, to build various pillars of light.

I wanted to get tracing paper as it's cheap however the problem is it needs to pass a flame test, and I know it won't pass.

So far I've heard baking tray paper.

Any other ideas?



Sorry I know this is posted in the wrong place but I need answers desperatelly and the lighting section isn't as popular. I need to sort this by next thursday.

Thanks
Dan.



Crap. Sorry, missread. You need diffusion. BUT, same principal, use dissolved baking soda to cloud the water.,
  • 0

#4 Matthew Buick

Matthew Buick
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2345 posts
  • Student
  • Newcastle upon Tyne, UK.

Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:26 PM

I'm no expert, but surely the water will boil under the heat of the light. What if the vessels containing the water break, the people below could recieve awful burns. Personally I think baking tray paper will be a much safer bet.
  • 0

#5 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:32 PM

Baking paper will burn too if it is too lose to a light or contacts a globe. Is 100ish/roll really too expensive for diffusion? A roll will last you a very long time if you're not wasteful. Have you looked at sources like The Expendables Recycler that sell gels and diffusion rolls that are partially used up by past shows? They even sell damaged gels and diffusion that generally works as fine as prettier looking perfect rolls and is much cheaper. Perhaps there's a place in London that does the same thing?

Edited by Chris Keth, 26 November 2008 - 05:35 PM.

  • 0

#6 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:19 PM

Only problem is I want about 6. Cheapest place in the UK I've found does 7 metre rolls for about £45 roughly.

6 would just be rediculous, this might be a largish college project but I'm not paying out that much. The college is willing to pay expenses but within reason. And the loan stores don't keep that much of one type in.



I've taken an alternative route so far, I'm purchasing a whole bunch of 6ft fluorescents which im going to gell different colours. Pink cyc wash with white gobo patterns all over, along with the fluorescents for hard light should look ok.


http://blog.dispatch.....arge cast.jpg
'Cos I didn't steal this like....





Anyway thanks for the suggestions, but I think I'll be ok now I have an alternative. I'll keep an eye out for somewhere that sells re-used gel, although my college normally has loads. Just not 6 rolls of Lee 250.

Edited by Daniel Ashley-Smith, 26 November 2008 - 06:21 PM.

  • 0

#7 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 26 November 2008 - 08:03 PM

I just thought of this. What about thick translucent plastic dropcloth from the hardware store? It's not white but it is a pretty good diffuser of light and it's extremely cheap when compared to rolls of 250. You could even double it up and still come out way cheaper. Perhaps you can find some that's a little milky white, I'm not exactly sure what's out there.
  • 0

#8 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 27 November 2008 - 02:38 AM

I've taken an alternative route so far, I'm purchasing a whole bunch of 6ft fluorescents which im going to gell different colours. Pink cyc wash with white gobo patterns all over, along with the fluorescents for hard light should look ok.


What about artificial silk or other white fabric? I doubt either will burn as easily as paper. how are you going to deal with light falloff btw? Hvae one light shining down the pillar, one up? That might easier do with fluros. Mount the fluros on a wooden beam and build rings of heavy duty wire around that. mount the fabric or gel on these right, eh presto! A pillar of light that doesn't get hot, will burn or have much a falloff.

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#9 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:12 PM

I just thought of this. What about thick translucent plastic dropcloth from the hardware store? It's not white but it is a pretty good diffuser of light and it's extremely cheap when compared to rolls of 250. You could even double it up and still come out way cheaper. Perhaps you can find some that's a little milky white, I'm not exactly sure what's out there.



What about artificial silk or other white fabric? I doubt either will burn as easily as paper. how are you going to deal with light falloff btw? Hvae one light shining down the pillar, one up? That might easier do with fluros. Mount the fluros on a wooden beam and build rings of heavy duty wire around that. mount the fabric or gel on these right, eh presto! A pillar of light that doesn't get hot, will burn or have much a falloff.

Cheers, Dave

To be honest I'm not too bothered about the falloff, however if I had time I'd place a light underneath it aswell.

The only thing I'm bothered about is that these things have to go through the flame test before I can light them, most things apart from gels will just set on fire. Burning isn't a problem, it's fire.


But, I have to remember this is only a college project and I'm not spending crazy amounts of money on something I'm not making anything out of.

I'll try and post a video link at some point so you can all see what it was all about if anyones interested, although a groups TX for tommorow has absolutelly creamed my plans. Their LD blagged about 15x MAC 250 moving lights, about 20 LED strip lights which change colour and brightness through DMX, and they have atleast 2 studio lighting guru's working on it.

And the LD owns some crazy 30k lighting desk. The studio looks like the death star.



Myself and my 3 man lighting team have done very little studio lighting, just all on-location drama lighting.



Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definatelly keep the fabric idea in mind, I'm not writing off this idea as a live television broadcast is taking place next summer which will have a solid budget.
  • 0

#10 Serge Teulon

Serge Teulon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 757 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London UK

Posted 02 December 2008 - 04:50 PM

Hey Daniel,

I suppose you are in studio A.
What about some muslin.

I found some in Atlantis
It's a great bit of diffusion which is not expensive and you can knock up some frames out of the wood in the back storage area to hang in front of your lights.

It will warm up your light as it is bleached but you can counter that with racking.

Good luck!
  • 0

#11 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:56 AM

Hey Daniel,

I suppose you are in studio A.
What about some muslin.

I found some in Atlantis
It's a great bit of diffusion which is not expensive and you can knock up some frames out of the wood in the back storage area to hang in front of your lights.

It will warm up your light as it is bleached but you can counter that with racking.

Good luck!

Hey Serge.

Yeh.. studio A lol. A fellow student in the year above me used muslin for a similar idea, for rave-on-air. I just left it a little late, as I had my sights set on tracing paper. But since as it needs to pass the flame test, I won't waste my time with it.

I'm hoping to atleast LD one of the rave-on-air channels next year so this time I'll know well in advance.


Went on your profile, saw you talking to a Stephen Price who also went ravensbourne. First two people I've seen around here who are from rave. Apparently Stephen works for Take 2 Films, used to drop a lot of work off their when doing work for IBF in covent garden. Good to see some ex-rave students involved in film and not just television.
  • 0

#12 Serge Teulon

Serge Teulon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 757 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London UK

Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:31 AM

Are you also interested in film?
  • 0

#13 Daniel Smith

Daniel Smith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:22 AM

To get into film is my dream, however as I've started through television I have a feeling drama is going to be my area, which I don't mind at all as it's probably the most cinematic television genre.

Although I'm hoping to get into the NFTS after ravensbourne so perhaps I'll move completelly over to film then. Provided I get in of course...
  • 0

#14 Serge Teulon

Serge Teulon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 757 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London UK

Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:17 PM

That's great to hear but just in case (and off-topic) you don't know, to get into the NFTS you need to be able to show your talent. Thus meaning, having shot a couple of things. It's not like the rave!
Good luck to you if you can get in. It is apparently a nice place to learn the trade and make contacts.
  • 0


Opal

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Tai Audio

CineLab

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Rig Wheels Passport