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Red Footage: How Do You Watch This Stuff?


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#1 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:44 PM

Ok Red guys I have some Red footage on a hard drive here that is straight out of the camera. I have a pile of QT movies that I want to fool around with.

Right, so when I first try to play one, I get a notice from quick time saying I need to install the Red Codec. So I did that, I got it from here:

http://www.red.com/support

I installed this one:

REDCODE RAW codec for Intel Macs. Supports RT playback in Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 or later and editing of the QuickTime Reference movies generated in camera. Play REDCODE RAW movies directly from QuickTime Player or other QuickTime-enabled applications. Note: Supports RED ONE cameras up through Build 18.

I see that is says for "Intel Macs", I do not have an Intel Mac even though the message said it installed fine. I have a Mac Mac, is there a codec for Red footage for non-Intel Macs?

Or do I need to buy an Intel Mac?

Thanks
R,
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#2 John Brawley

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 12:01 AM

I see that is says for "Intel Macs", I do not have an Intel Mac even though the message said it installed fine. I have a Mac Mac, is there a codec for Red footage for non-Intel Macs?

Or do I need to buy an Intel Mac?

Thanks
R,



You need a pretty spec'd up machine AND hard drive to be able to play these files. You should note that there are several sizes of QT proxy for each r3d file. Remember that the red codec you're installing is actually doing a real time transcode on the fly of the r3d files so they can be played back through QT. (are they files you've shot or someone elses ?)

This is a CPU intensive operation, so the fast your mac, the larger the files that can be played back and the more realtime the playback is.

If you have an older non intel machine i think you'll struggle to do it.

Welcome to the future.

jb

*edit

When you say you want to fool around with the Quicktimes, you should also remember that they are very poor examples of what the R3D's are actually like or capable of. They are practically misleading in fact. So think of them like cheapo one light rushes done by the junior colourist late at night...

Edited by John Brawley, 30 November 2008 - 12:03 AM.

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#3 Dan Goulder

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 12:41 AM

How about at least rendering them to compressed HD proxy files (such as Prores or DVCPro HD)? If you happen to have some 35mm footage you've shot that's been transferred to one of those formats, you may be able to make (somewhat compromised) comparisons. We await your full report.
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#4 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:34 AM

Yeah I can't export this stuff into any thing, I just get error messages.

The footage was shot today by forum member Stephen Whitehead, I just want to see if I can cut it and how it handles in FCP, etc etc.

A post house told me they can convert Red footage into QT files that I can use in my existing system, then I can cut and export an edl, and then have them auto assemble in 4K. I can go that route, costs money of course. But may be cheaper than buying a whole new system just so I can do it all myself at home. I'll have to do a cost comparison.

Any way that answers my question, I can't use the Red footage on my Mac that was actually made by Mac. I have to get a Mac with those bastardized chips in it :D

R,

PS: Every one on the forum can join with me in congratulating Stephen Whitehead, BTW. A student short film he shot has been admitted into Sundance. Good job Stephen!

In true Canadian fashion, the Toronto Film Festival said no to this short, and Sundance said yes. It's called Captain Coulet (sp?) Any one at Sundance next year, should have a look.
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#5 John Brawley

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:54 AM

Yeah I can't export this stuff into any thing, I just get error messages.

The footage was shot today by forum member Stephen Whitehead, I just want to see if I can cut it and how it handles in FCP, etc etc.

A post house told me they can convert Red footage into QT files that I can use in my existing system, then I can cut and export an edl, and then have them auto assemble in 4K. I can go that route, costs money of course. But may be cheaper than buying a whole new system just so I can do it all myself at home. I'll have to do a cost comparison.

Any way that answers my question, I can't use the Red footage on my Mac that was actually made by Mac. I have to get a Mac with those bastardized chips in it :D

R,



If you download and install the *free* application from red called redalert then it also installs an application called redrushes (?) that will allow you to render the r3d files into a more *freindly* qt form that you can play and edit with.

The older mac chips were made by motorola by the way...;-)

jb
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#6 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:15 PM

If you download and install the *free* application from red called redalert then it also installs an application called redrushes (?) that will allow you to render the r3d files into a more *freindly* qt form that you can play and edit with.

The older mac chips were made by motorola by the way...;-)

jb


John,

On the Red site it has a thing called Red Alert but it also says Intel chips only:

"Read REDCODE RAW files, perform white balance, contrast and one light color correction then export DPX, TIFF or QuickTime reference movies. Includes Automator Actions and REDLine. Support at reduser.net. Requires Intel Mac."

Is there Red Alert for Macs made with chips you claim where made by Motorola?

I say claim because I have it on good authority that Steve Jobs used to personally make every Mac CPU in his basement workshop after hours and on weekends ;)

R,
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#7 Dan Goulder

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:22 PM

John,

On the Red site it has a thing called Red Alert but it also says Intel chips only:

"Read REDCODE RAW files, perform white balance, contrast and one light color correction then export DPX, TIFF or QuickTime reference movies. Includes Automator Actions and REDLine. Support at reduser.net. Requires Intel Mac."

Is there Red Alert for Macs made with chips you claim where made by Motorola?

I say claim because I have it on good authority that Steve Jobs used to personally make every Mac CPU in his basement workshop after hours and on weekends ;)

R,

I guess you're just going to have to stick with good ol' 35. See... even your computer isn't sold on this RED thing.

Can you at least open a RED file on the FCP timeline, and then re-render it? Try a DVCPro HD preset timeline.
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#8 John Brawley

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 03:05 PM

"Read REDCODE RAW files, perform white balance, contrast and one light color correction then export DPX, TIFF or QuickTime reference movies. Includes Automator Actions and REDLine. Support at reduser.net. Requires Intel Mac."



Hi again richard.

I'd give it a go and try to install it anyway. You actually don't need redalert, you want redrushes which is installed along with redalert.

I think you'll find redalert it will install and even run, it just won't display an image.

If i recall, the whole reason Apple switched to intel chips was because motorola dithered and refused to develop a low power (laptop) version of the G5. For a while, there were G5 towers but only G4 laptops. That's why the first apple machines with INTEL chips were laptops.

jb
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#9 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 03:23 PM

John,

I installed Red Alert, it said it installed fine, but no changes-still can't see any video in QT.

D. Goulder, my version of FCP won't do a thing with the red files even set to HD settings.

So this another point on the introduction of Red, if you don't have a really up-to-date Mac, upgrading your computer hardware is potentially another cost to be factored into shooting on Red.

Where as the system I have now is perfectly fine for off-lining a show shot on 35mm, and exporting an EDL.

R,
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#10 John Brawley

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 03:35 PM

John,

I installed Red Alert, it said it installed fine, but no changes-still can't see any video in QT.


Hi again Richard.

Yes but you don't want redalert. Look for an application that was also installed called redrushes. (command F to search from finder then type in Redrushes)

See if that works ? That should allow you to transcode to another QT format from your R3d files.

I tell all the producers that want to shoot RED, that only the camera is cheap. If you want to do the post *properly* and get the same (or similar) results to 35mm origination, then you'll find the costs quickly skyrocket, as they realise that it's quite expensive to have the infrastructure to view and edit your footage, not to mention being able to do it with some form of data redundancy. Same in production. Lighting costs the same, lenses are the same, gripping is the same. The only thing cheaper is the physical camera body (maybe). There's the same productivity hit while you wait overnight to have your rushes *processed* if you want graded rushes.

Everything that's great about RED is also generally what's not great about it...

jb
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#11 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 03:48 PM

I found Red Rushes and when I double click it I get a message that says the application is not supported by my system.

Ok well it's ok, I'll see what deal I can swing with the post house. I know lot's of people use an outside post house to process the Red footage.

I really can't be bothered with buying and setting up a new system.

R,
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#12 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

you are getting yourself into a pile of trouble trying to make this footage work on a machine that isn't capable of handling it. Take the footage and use it in an INTEL mac, like they tell you to.

From there you should be able to watch any of the proxies, but I found the _M and _P versions to show up best on a 15'' macbook pro. Bear in mind that even the lowest quality proxy didn't play at 24fps, maybe 18fps if we were lucky.

This is the simplest way to watch the footage. If you want to downconvert select shots for export to tape or dailies, use red rushes. Use red cine to load an entire R3D folder and color correct a whole roll.

Use Red Alert to do one light CC, and export 2K Tiffs of it for reference in telecine.
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#13 Carl Brighton

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:28 AM

Or do I need to buy an Intel Mac?

Or for someone like me who wouldn't use a Mac for a boat anchor, is there any form of non-Mac based solution?
We seem to have migrated an awfully long way for the original RED concept of "democratising" film making.
Why do I get the feeling that all this has been set up so Graeme Nattress & Co can have their Own Private Idaho?
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#14 Gunleik Groven

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:18 AM

You need to visit an IntelMac to get acess to the RAW files.
I don't defend it or say it is bad. It's just like that...

But on pretty much anything intel-based, you can chew out proxies. (Just remember they are proxies and don't judge the format from the proxies...)

There are by now a ton of batch-tools for transcoding and conforming, depending on your workflow of preference.

IF you were on a curent Intel tower with harddisk capacity (which isn't really all that...) you could edit from the cam-proxies and send to color for a quick grade.

I would however suggest spending some time with REDCine/RedAlert to see what the different parameters do with noise and DR...


Or for someone like me who wouldn't use a Mac for a boat anchor, is there any form of non-Mac based solution?
We seem to have migrated an awfully long way for the original RED concept of "democratising" film making.
Why do I get the feeling that all this has been set up so Graeme Nattress & Co can have their Own Private Idaho?


For Wintels there is currently only Scratch and RedCine. RedCine will need a nVidea card to run properly.

This is rapidly changing (finally) as the RAW plugin for Adobe is "around the corner" (in RED-speak) :)
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#15 will griffith

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:45 AM

Or do I need to buy an Intel Mac?


No offense... but shouldn't that be asked BEFORE you shoot?

Even if you could use the software on a G5 or older you absolutely would not want to.
You are handling huge amounts of data, and it would be wise to equip yourself with the proper tools.
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#16 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 01:53 PM

No offense... but shouldn't that be asked BEFORE you shoot?

Even if you could use the software on a G5 or older you absolutely would not want to.
You are handling huge amounts of data, and it would be wise to equip yourself with the proper tools.


Ahhhh....that is exactly what I have done, "ask before I shoot."

As I mentioned in my original post the footage was not shot by me, I just wanted to fool around with Red footage and test it out. So I personally have not shot any project on the Red.

As a result of this test I have discovered one issue I will have "if" I want to use Red down the road and that is the need for new computer hardware. I actually don't remember seeing a big banner on the Red site that reads "You Will Need An Intel Mac To Use Red Footage." I suppose one could deduce this if they read the requirements for the plug ins, but the info isn't thrown out there in a big way.

That fact has not really been made clear to a potential buyer. So as a result of my test, I now know this piece of information.

I find it odd that the same system that can off line a show perfectly well that was shot on 35mm, isn't good enough for RED, and that I will have to equip myself with the so called "proper tools" as you call them.

R,
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#17 Paul Bruening

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 01:58 PM

Hey Richard,

Are you determined to go Mac only?
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#18 Stephen Williams

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 02:18 PM

Hi Richard,

I was able to load RED cine into my 4 year old laptop running XP, now my new laptop runs Vista & RED Cine crashes. Tom recons I am on the edge of being refused service by Jim. I therefore won't bother to resolve the issue & just shoot 35mm as it's so much less work.

Stephen

Ahhhh....that is exactly what I have done, "ask before I shoot."

As I mentioned in my original post the footage was not shot by me, I just wanted to fool around with Red footage and test it out. So I personally have not shot any project on the Red.

As a result of this test I have discovered one issue I will have "if" I want to use Red down the road and that is the need for new computer hardware. I actually don't remember seeing a big banner on the Red site that reads "You Will Need An Intel Mac To Use Red Footage." I suppose one could deduce this if they read the requirements for the plug ins, but the info isn't thrown out there in a big way.

That fact has not really been made clear to a potential buyer. So as a result of my test, I now know this piece of information.

I find it odd that the same system that can off line a show perfectly well that was shot on 35mm, isn't good enough for RED, and that I will have to equip myself with the so called "proper tools" as you call them.

R,


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#19 Will Earl

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 02:31 PM

I find it odd that the same system that can off line a show perfectly well that was shot on 35mm, isn't good enough for RED, and that I will have to equip myself with the so called "proper tools" as you call them.


Richard,

It is strange, as for nearly every other digital image format out there it's possible to convert it into a usable image format or movie - despite the type of platform (win, mac, linux). Maybe some smart soul will reverse engineer the R3D files (much like what the dcraw tools have done with digital stills) and make a little program so you can process Red files from your old Mac.

-W
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#20 Paul Bruening

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 02:34 PM

Hi Richard,

I was able to load RED cine into my 4 year old laptop running XP, now my new laptop runs Vista & RED Cine crashes. Tom recons I am on the edge of being refused service by Jim. I therefore won't bother to resolve the issue & just shoot 35mm as it's so much less work.

Stephen


Hey Stephen,

This Vista thing is a friggin' disaster. I put V64b on two of my computers and had unsolvable problems all over the place. I jumped back to XP64b but still had a few problems. XP32b works on everything. I have selectable boot set up on those two machines. I boot up with 32b for older programs. Then, I reboot for Adobe stuff to run at 64b.

I suspect software developers are getting sick of jumping through hoops every time Microsoft tries to force everyone to upgrade. So, many of them are dragging their heals on supporting Vista Stay away for XP service pack 3 as well. Some of the local computer geeks I know think SP3 was a trick to screw up XP so everyone would jump to Vista. I don't know about that. I do know that XP32b works fine with darn near everything and XP64b works on what I really need it to.
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