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Canon 5D Mark II


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#1 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:19 AM

An interesting review:

http://www.cameralab...ovie_mode.shtml

Workarounds:

«The 5D Mark II shoots all video in a fully automatic Program AE mode regardless of what position the Command dial is set at. So the camera automatically sets the shutter, aperture and ISO sensitivity itself with no direct manual control over any of them. There?s also no control over the metering or colour space, nor is there any noise reduction applied, but the movie mode does adopt the current White Balance and Picture Style, along with applying Peripheral Illumination Correction, Highlight Tone Priority and Auto Lighting Optimizer if enabled. Thankfully, the Mark II also allows you to apply exposure compensation (which tends to adjust the ISO value), along with locking the exposure, both of which provide a certain degree of creative control.

The movie mode may be automatic, but various requirements and preferences make it unlike shooting stills in auto. For example since adjusting the aperture results in audible clicks and visible jumps in brightness, the 5D Mark II will avoid changing it while filming unless it really has no other choice. For the minimum disruption it first adjusts the sensitivity (with the complete range of 100 to 6400 ISO at its disposal). It?ll then adjust the shutter speed, with Canon quoting a range between 1/30 and 1/125, although we found it sometimes reporting slightly slower or faster speeds. Then if all else fails, it?ll change the aperture, normally in big jumps, such as from f5.6 to f16.

You can see what values it?s chosen for the aperture, shutter and ISO by half-pressing the shutter release during Live View, so long as you?ve previously configured the Live View function to Stills and Movie, and the screen to Movie Display as mentioned above. You may however be surprised by the Mark II?s selections at times.

With a top shutter speed of just 1/125 (or thereabouts), the camera frequently chooses a very small aperture under bright conditions. Without intervention, we found the camera regularly filming video at f16 or even f22 on Sunny days (see menu grab above). This of course throws any initial thoughts of a small depth of field out the window. While the 2 Megapixel resolution of 1080p means diffraction is less of an issue at such small apertures, there are additional concerns over sensor dust becoming more visible ? indeed the tiny hair seen in the anti-dust section of the previous page became an annoying fixture in the corner of most of our outdoor footage, when automatically shot at f22. If you download the clip we've provided at Vimeo (see later), you'll see it in the top left corner.

Take the Mark II indoors where you?d hope its fast lenses and large sensor would have a big advantage, and you?ll often find it increasing the sensitivity to as much as 3200 ISO rather than slowing the shutter or opening the aperture. So with your first filming attempts, you?ll probably end up with a huge depth of field outdoors and disappointingly noisy results indoors. But as anyone who?s watched numerous professional clips taken with the 5D Mark II knows, there?s obviously some ways around it.

A number of workarounds have been discovered including setting the desired aperture in Av mode, before shooting video with the Live View screen set to Exposure Simulation rather than Movie Display. Another solution we found reasonably effective for acquiring a small depth of field is to first point the camera somewhere dark, then lock the exposure as soon as the desired f-number is displayed. As mentioned above, the Mark II often makes big jumps in the aperture value, but it?s quite easy to persuade the EF 24-105mm to jump from f16 to f5.6 or f4.0. We also found the EF 50mm f1.2 would open up to f2.0 or even f1.2 when pointed at something sufficiently dark.

At this point, the Mark II will also almost certainly have increased the sensitivity to 1600 or 3200 ISO, inevitably resulting in a gross overexposure when you recompose your shot. The trick now though is to turn the thumb wheel to apply negative exposure compensation, reducing the ISO with each step; hopefully you?ll have enough steps to get the desired exposure. We found starting this process with the compensation set to +2EV before locking the exposure gives you greater latitude for subsequent reduction.

While this technique can work wonders for combining larger apertures and low ISOs for clean indoor results, there?s less opportunity outdoors under Sunny conditions. The fact is with a relatively slow maximum shutter speed (and a habit of selecting slower speeds than it needs to), the camera will have little choice but to match it with a very small aperture even at 100 ISO. If you want a small depth of field under bright conditions, you simply have no choice but to fit neutral density filters.
»


Here's the best method explained, then:


View on Vimeo

http://forums.dprevi...mp;changemode=1

http://www.cinema5d.....php?f=14&t=277


For faster shutter speed and certain kind of 'Saving Private Ryan' style, more info here:

http://cinema5d.com/...;start=10#p2444

http://www.dvinfo.ne...workaround.html
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#2 Tom Lowe

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:39 AM

Or you could just slap on a Nikon-compatible lens with an iris ring. That's what I've been doing and it works like a charm. It's also very easy to lock ISO. Just stop the Nikon lens down to f/22, point the camera at a bright light, and hit Exposure Lock. You will then be locked at ISO 400 or whatever you like. Then open the iris to expose properly.

Piece of cake.
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#3 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:50 AM

Yes, for sure. As well, with the advantage of use of one of the actual glass jewels, the Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8 -- my only concern is fast focus on full frame though you can use AF-confirmation. There's no VR, etc.
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#4 Tom Lowe

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 02:26 AM

Yes, the 14-24mm f/2.8 G is the lens I am most interested in from Nikon. But it has a strange EOS adapter. All of the other Nikon glass can adapt to the EOS body easily, though all the controls are manual.

Canon is so stupid to prevent iris control. :rolleyes: I would like to use EF glass with the 5D2.
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#5 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:14 PM

What a pain in the ass! Something similar I have been doing with my D90, except it DOESN'T change the ASA value automatically as the 5D seems to. And lenses with aperture ring have to be controlled internally, despite the manual saying otherwise. Why would anyone bother with this kind of technology?

Here's waiting for Scarlet to come out.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 18 December 2008 - 01:15 PM.

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#6 John Sprung

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 02:19 PM

Here's an example of 5D2 work:

http://www.freshdv.c...5d-mark-ii.html

The VistaVision sized DOF is quite apparant.



-- J.S.
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#7 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 05:34 PM

The replies to the poster of the above video are interesting. The consensus would seem to be: "yeah, sure you get shallow depth of field, but at what price in terms of limitations?"

I think it is a cool camera (and it could have been infinitely better had manual video controls been included), but we will have to wait to the mkIII version for any creative manual control without workarounds.

Still, for the money, many people will be tempted, myself included.
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#8 John Sprung

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 07:56 PM

Still, for the money, many people will be tempted, myself included.

Yeah, it has a very toe-in-the-water feel to it. ;-)



-- J.S.
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#9 Tom Lowe

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:33 PM

Here's an example of 5D2 work:

http://www.freshdv.c...5d-mark-ii.html

The VistaVision sized DOF is quite apparant.
-- J.S.


The fact is that many shooters, DPs, directors, etc, have been dreaming about shooting digital Vista Vision for ages, and now it is here. Canon has slapped limitations on what you can do, but there are ways around that.

I have been shooting on the 5D2 for a couple of weeks, and I am telling you guys right now, this is a game changer. Get on board, or get left behind. The best thing a DP can do is stay in tune with all developments.

tom
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#10 David Auner aac

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:05 AM

Yes, the 14-24mm f/2.8 G is the lens I am most interested in from Nikon. But it has a strange EOS adapter. All of the other Nikon glass can adapt to the EOS body easily, though all the controls are manual.


Hi Tom,

how do you adapt that lens to EOS? I kinda hate G lenses because they lack the aperture ring. BTW I have just gotten my hands on a D3x. One of the first in Austria,m guess I was lucky for once! ;)

Cheers, Dave
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#11 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 05:44 PM

Hi Tom,

how do you adapt that lens to EOS? I kinda hate G lenses because they lack the aperture ring. BTW I have just gotten my hands on a D3x. One of the first in Austria,m guess I was lucky for once! ;)

Cheers, Dave

http://www.16-9.net/nikon_g/
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#12 Tom Lowe

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:08 PM

Hi Tom,

how do you adapt that lens to EOS? I kinda hate G lenses because they lack the aperture ring. BTW I have just gotten my hands on a D3x. One of the first in Austria,m guess I was lucky for once! ;)

Cheers, Dave


That link provided above is correct.

Wow, you already have a D3x?? Is it already for sale?

I would LOVE to get a chance to shoot on one.
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#13 David Auner aac

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:51 PM

Wow, you already have a D3x?? Is it already for sale?

I would LOVE to get a chance to shoot on one.


No, I don't have the 7k to buy one. But I was lucky and got one of the first ones in Austria to test. Will post pictures when done with post on these. As of today there is no RAW plugin for Photoshop! So I'll have to use Nikon Capture for the time being... That sucks!

Cheers, Dave
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#14 Tom Lowe

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 07:11 PM

No, I don't have the 7k to buy one. But I was lucky and got one of the first ones in Austria to test. Will post pictures when done with post on these. As of today there is no RAW plugin for Photoshop! So I'll have to use Nikon Capture for the time being... That sucks!

Cheers, Dave


So does ISO go up to 6400? Can it sustain 4fps through a whole CF card shooting RAW? Does it use UDMA CF cards? :)
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#15 David Auner aac

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 03:59 AM

So does ISO go up to 6400? Can it sustain 4fps through a whole CF card shooting RAW? Does it use UDMA CF cards? :)


Yeah, but not officially meaning it doesn't say ISO 6400 but instead is in HI mode. I haven't tested the sustainable fps because for that kind of job I rarely need it. But on yesterdays job I only had to wait for the camera once or twice but that was before switching cards... As for UDMA cards: no idea, don't have the manual that goes with it. We might find it online though...

Cheers, Dave
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#16 Sam Wells

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 10:38 AM

D3 is UDMA compatible (I use Sandisk "Ducati") so yes.

Curious to hear (see ?) your impressions of the D3x David. I need the higher frame rate of the D3 plus I ain't got 8 Grand USD on hand right now !
But I'd also like to test drive one sometime....

-Sam
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#17 Paul Bruening

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 12:38 PM

Or you could just slap on a Nikon-compatible lens with an iris ring. That's what I've been doing and it works like a charm. It's also very easy to lock ISO. Just stop the Nikon lens down to f/22, point the camera at a bright light, and hit Exposure Lock. You will then be locked at ISO 400 or whatever you like. Then open the iris to expose properly.

Piece of cake.


Hey Tom,

Is this the only workaround needed with Nikkies? Honestly, does the 5D2 have any other quirks?
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#18 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 04:31 PM

Hey Tom,

Is this the only workaround needed with Nikkies? Honestly, does the 5D2 have any other quirks?

For the control over shutter speed and ISO. Read the information up there, it should inform you on the subject matter.

That Nikon zoom lens is the best piece of glass you can get for this camera.
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#19 K Borowski

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 05:13 PM

That Nikon zoom lens is the best piece of glass you can get for this camera.


A Nikon zoom is the best lens for a Canon camera? Isn't that like putting Coke in a Pepsi bottle? Or matter with anti-matter? Just like the new black-hole generator, can't you accidentally end the world by combining the two?

Edited by Karl Borowski, 20 December 2008 - 05:14 PM.

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#20 Tom Lowe

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 12:34 PM

Hey Tom,

Is this the only workaround needed with Nikkies? Honestly, does the 5D2 have any other quirks?


I'm not sure I understand the question, Paul? With Nikon-compatible glass (aside from the new G-series like the 14-24) the Nikon>EOS adapter work-around is very simple and seems to work perfectly. You have to take a quick additional work-around step to set ISO.

The camera definitely has some quirks. One problem is that it can be unreliable in terms of aliasing. Certain things can trigger aliasing, like straight white lines, which can trigger blue moire pattern noise. Other times, the camera is 100% fine and beautiful. I think it's just a matter of learning its limitations and capabilities. The right tool for the right job kind of thing.
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