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Best price on short ends??


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#1 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 12:22 AM

Hey, who has the best price on 35mm shortends and re-cans? I would like to TRY and end up in the .05 cents a foot range if possible. If it makes any difference. I'm looking for 5279 and 5245 (maybe some 5246 as well) OOORRR probably impossible but MAYBE 5260. Thanks-Steve B)

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 31 December 2008 - 12:25 AM.

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#2 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:57 AM

Hey Steve,

I bought 5279 200' short ends at www.reelgoodfilm.com for .05 a foot a few months ago. They have all the Kodak and Fuji stocks.

Bruce Taylor
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#3 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 10:16 PM

Hey, thanks Bruce, I'll check 'em out. Let me ask you a question, how was the stock? fog levels, grain, color etc? Also anyone got any other suggestions just in case this place doesn't work out for any reason like maybe their low on those particular stocks at the time I contact them or whatever? B)
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#4 Hunter Hampton

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:16 AM

I just spoke with a fellow from reelgoodfilm, who was more than helpful. The longer film is tested, but the short-ends are not- BUT they all come from reliable sources, they don't accept film from "off the street", its all from network TV, Hollywood films, Ect... I dont think you will see much difference from the re-sale stock compared to the factory fresh stuff image wise, most of the film they have there should be pretty fresh (and they should have anything your looking for in color neg). I am going to give them a try next week and order a few thousand feet. Want me to be your guinea pig? ; )
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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 02:07 AM

:lol: Hey anytime anyone offers to be a guinea pig, I gotta take 'em up on that. Thanks! Please let me know what your shoot looks like once you're finished. I'm looking at ordering about 50 to 70K of stock for Blood Moon at some point this YEAR (it's actually 12:00 RIGHT NOW) so that's one reason I wanted to make sure they were pretty reputable going by the old adage " Sometime the best deal turns out the be a bad deal", because I don't have the cash to replace several thousand feet of fogged film but now have heard what you and Bruce had to say, I'm much more comfortable about making a large purchase from them. How's their shipping rates? B)
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:11 PM

Don't forget, you can do your own tests. . .

Sure, there is still potential for things to go wrong. Remember that thread where the guy bought film that had a rewound, undeveloped take from a commercial and everything was double-exposed?

But even the big guys probably can't catch that sort of mistake. You can even do a test with just regular B&W developer for things like fog if it isn't critical and the film is new just to double-check.
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#7 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:01 PM

Very sound advice sir, and I shall heed it. B)
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#8 Patrick Neary

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:05 PM

:lol: Hey anytime anyone offers to be a guinea pig, I gotta take 'em up on that. Thanks! Please let me know what your shoot looks like once you're finished. I'm looking at ordering about 50 to 70K of stock for Blood Moon at some point this YEAR (it's actually 12:00 RIGHT NOW) so that's one reason I wanted to make sure they were pretty reputable going by the old adage " Sometime the best deal turns out the be a bad deal", because I don't have the cash to replace several thousand feet of fogged film but now have heard what you and Bruce had to say, I'm much more comfortable about making a large purchase from them. How's their shipping rates? B)


You might have a problem getting that amount of footage from any resale kind of outfit. I've shot quite a bit of recans and short ends and it's generally no big deal if you're going to telecine, but on a short I did (where we struck a 35mm print) the wildly varying fog levels caused some issues in the color timing.
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#9 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:11 AM

You might have a problem getting that amount of footage from any resale kind of outfit. I've shot quite a bit of recans and short ends and it's generally no big deal if you're going to telecine, but on a short I did (where we struck a 35mm print) the wildly varying fog levels caused some issues in the color timing.



All the film I've used from them has been telecined, so I can't comment on fog levels, but that is a good point.

I may have had a problem with some 50D I got from them. It was very overexposed (2 to 3 stops) on 2 different shooting days, and I think it highly unlikely I made a consistent mistake like that. I need to put that reel up on some rewinds to check the edge ID, but I suspect it was mis-labeled 250D stock. The picture was still usable for my purposes fortunately, but that is something to take into consideration. I had a light scratch on one roll too, but it only occurred on that one roll and I was never able to determine if it was the camera/mag or the film itself. Again, I was still able to use the footage.

You would probably be safer with recans, though taking some additional time and checking the shortend rolls (develop a snip) would take a little time but may be worth the effort. Overall, if you're shooting a no-money shoot (like me), I think it is well worth the risk. Especially if reshoots are not impossible. The thing is, if the film has been removed from the can, loaded into a mag, then unloaded and relabeled, there is the likelyhood (inevitability?) of a mistake once in awhile.

I pick my film up at the ReelGoodFilm storefront, and the inventory is impressive. At least 2 rooms stacked floor to ceiling packed with cans of 35mm film. Their inventory comes from tv shows, features and commercials they tell me. It all seems to be fresh. It is not a fly-by-night operation, they are legit.

It's so cheap you should order some and try it. Then give them a heads up when you are looking for 70k' of stock.

Good luck!

Bruce Taylor
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#10 K Borowski

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:32 AM

Here's another way to get film: Join a crew on a big shoot and steal as much of it as you can every day without arousing suspicion ;)

Speaking of ends, on a more serious note, does anyone know what they did with all the ends they had left over from the IMAX segments of Dark Knight?

Edited by Karl Borowski, 02 January 2009 - 01:33 AM.

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#11 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:26 AM

Yeah, I'm probably gonna do that for the teaser I'm planning on shooting for fund raising purposes. We'll probably shoot 2000 ft MOS and dub any critical dialog in post. I can have it telecined fr like .06 cents a foot and printed for .28 cents a foot so I may have both done so we can project one in a theater after or before hours and get a DVD to any potential investors who would rather see it that way. THAT way if we want we could possibly use the footage in the film. It will also give us the chance to test the cameras, lenses and equipment we'll be using along WITH the film. B)
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#12 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:32 AM

Here's another way to get film: Join a crew on a big shoot and steal as much of it as you can every day without arousing suspicion ;)


Hey, why didn't I think of that! Hang on a second.........AHHUM! Is there anyone out there hiring a second camera assistant or camera department PA for a big film using LOTS and LOTS of 5279? I'll work cheap.....OK I'm back, that should do it, let me make a note here.....film stock budget...ZERO!!! There all set. :D
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#13 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 08:51 PM

Hey Steve,

Using the teaser to test film and equipment sounds like the perfect idea.

My experiences with the Russian gear have been good, but there are many, many details that will need to be addressed before you can start shooting reliably. All the power supply/charger and cable issues have to be worked out. Obviously the functionality of everything has to be checked and you'll have some surprises. I am still working out filter issues with the various matte boxes. The nits and nats have consumed a surprising amount of my effort and time.

Best of luck,

Bruce
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#14 Patrick Neary

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:48 PM

THAT way if we want we could possibly use the footage in the film. It will also give us the chance to test the cameras, lenses and equipment we'll be using along WITH the film. B)


The only problem with that scenario is that testing one small batch of short ends isn't going to tell you anything about the quality of the next batch of short ends.

Even if you bought an enormous stockpile of film from a reseller, that stuff is coming from all sorts of different sources, ranging from TV series to student shorts, so testing one batch really will only tell you anything about those particular rolls you shoot. The next roll and the one after that could be anybody's guess.

I've had really good luck with shorties and recans (especially from reelgood), but one batch of 100' daylight rolls I ordered from a Canadian outfit (with a good reputation, as I understood) was complete crap.
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#15 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 12:12 AM

Hey at THAT price, I'm going with reputable dealers in the US only, most probably the ones recommended here. I can't afford to gamble any more than I already am. Of course you're right about the need to test a large order but until I actually order it, there's not much more I CAN do. If the teaser/test footage comes out OK then I'll be more comfortable placing a large order with a reseller. I will probably snip test random samples of the shortend stock. I'm going to negotiate that price to include a certain percentage of factory sealed 1000 and 400 ft rolls on that order as well if possible. (which it should be considering the amount of stock I intend to buy) and those may ALL be snip retested prior to use. (This is one reason I want my lab up and going, we could do this in house and have the results immediately.).
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#16 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 12:33 AM

Hey Steve,

Using the teaser to test film and equipment sounds like the perfect idea.

My experiences with the Russian gear have been good, but there are many, many details that will need to be addressed before you can start shooting reliably. All the power supply/charger and cable issues have to be worked out. Obviously the functionality of everything has to be checked and you'll have some surprises. I am still working out filter issues with the various matte boxes. The nits and nats have consumed a surprising amount of my effort and time.

Best of luck,

Bruce


Yeah, I KNOW you are a fellow commicam guy. I also am dedicated to the commicams. FORTUNATELY the 35C is a Rotovision 5000 from Bruce at Aranda and he went through it. He also has my PII and is working on that as well. The PII will also have the electronics upgraded. The only one I still need to have serviced is the Konvas-1. I'll probably ship it off to Bruce as well once I've finished paying him for the PII. It's a 6volt rheostat motor so the electronics can't really be upgraded but I do have a backup in case the primary one fails for any reason and hope to acquire a third just in case. I should have the lenses columnated and the mags serviced (the PII is having the mags serviced and the 35C I believe already has had them serviced in any event, I have like 10 mag for the Konvas-1 and 7 mags for the 35C THOUGH only 1 100o fit mag so I need at least 1 more and would prefer 3 more. The CII mags) but we'll see how much I can afford and if they need it after the test. They should all be in prime condition for Blood Moon and because I can only afford maybe 2 weeks production time and a 5-7:1 shooting ratio divided up over 3 cameras, even on 16 hour days, the wear and tear should be minimal as most of the stuff will be shot MOS so the most delicate camera, the 35C will have the least hours. The werewolf POV will probably be shot on the Konvas so the PII sync camera will probably take most of the wear but that will STILL be pretty light so they should be in fine shape for the next one. What problems are you having with the Matte box and filters?B)

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 03 January 2009 - 12:36 AM.

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#17 K Borowski

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 01:02 PM

(This is one reason I want my lab up and going, we could do this in house and have the results immediately.).


Doing snip tests hardly necessitates setting up a continuous transport MP processor. This is somethign easily accomplshed with a spiral reel tank and a fish-tank heater.
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#18 Paul Bruening

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 01:27 PM

DR Group tests their short ends. I don't know exactly the technique they use. But, the color data is printed on the label of each can's tests. The variation will be in how long after that the cans sat on a shelf. They charge a little more than Reelgood per foot but they do that test step. It's smart to overexpose by a safety margin on all short ends. It will depend on you to decide how much to compensate. I favor 1/2 to 2/3s stop over as standard practice.
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#19 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:19 PM

DR Group tests their short ends.


DR Group spun off their film sales, here's a blurb from their website:

"If you call the DR Group, our receptionist will transfer you to a representative of Film Source L.A. for your convenience. The new telephone number for our former film division is 818.484.3236 or you can find FSLA on the web at:http://www.filmsourcela.com"

One of my 2 perf clients got a screaming good deal for something like 30,000 feet. Haven't heard if they had any problems with it. I think they paid $.05 a foot for 5218.

Steve, about the matte box/filter deal, as you know the Russian filters are not the same size as western filters. If you are using the swing away matte and you get Rafael's 4x4 or 4x5.65 adapters you're good. But his adapters don't fit the anamorphic matte box or the special matte box for the OPF18 20-120 Lomo zoom. I'm trying to adapt an Arri 6x6 matte box to cover the anamorphic and zoom, but that is going to take some thought and machining.

Bruce
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#20 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:50 AM

Doing snip tests hardly necessitates setting up a continuous transport MP processor. This is something easily accomplished with a spiral reel tank and a fish-tank heater.

Actually, the ONE piece of processing equipment I DON"T have is a spiral tank believe it or not. I can probably lay my hands on a fish tank heater though. Hey, I could through the heater into a bucket, go into a dark, swirl the film around and bucket process. :D I do want to pick up a spiral tank at some point for the school, maybe this will give me an excuse to buy one.

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 04 January 2009 - 01:54 AM.

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