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The dark Knight


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#1 Mark Williams

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 07:21 AM

I watched the DVD last night on an eight foot screen. It started really well. and was well written The Joker was just so much fun and Heath Ledger really acted so well and believable. Everytime he came on I was happy. Even the high contrast worked with the film and the lighting was just to perfect. Michael Caine seemed a little too agressive in his role but maybe that attitude was deliberate in the directors vision but I didnt think it worked he should have been more softer with his surrogate son. This was a mixed bag Christian Bale acted brilliantly The world created and the visuals was amazing a hanged joker dressed as Batman made me jump Brilliant more like this please. Commissioner Gordons death was a good idea but then he came back? This whole film was full of neat twists and turns that always kept me interested and then they go on ruin it with Batmans fight scenes and silly voice.. Thats the problem with making films it only takes one thing to be out slightly and takes the whole thing down...

Now I'm going to have a guess here. The edited fight sequences were edited by someone who likes computer games and thinks his pals would be impressed at his superior gaming skills?I say this because the effect of some of these action sequences was like someone waving their fingers in front of your face then suddenly something different happened because the world just changed.. This is in fact boring confusing and left me feeling like an idiot for not seeing what just happened. This is seriously undermining action films this kind of fast moving close up action that makes no sense. Whats the point in spending millions when I could shake a black coat in front of the camera and flash a torch to achieve similar results.. Is this done because the film maker cant do action sequences? Or because of the fear of not being as good as some others? Bruce Lee sometimes had to slow down for the camera and his screen fighting was designed for the audience to enjoy. And was stylistic believable and watchable. Close ups are being used for the editors talent and NOT for the audiences enjoyment and thats a shame. If it means the pace has to stop or slow down then fine let the action carry the sequence it doesnt need rocket propelled music.. For example a spaghetti operatic western stops the music at the moment of conflict and lets the violence take over.

All I can say regarding Christian Bale as Batman is he makes an awesome Bruce Wayne but an awful Batman and thats not his fault He needs to pull back on the silly Bat voice and the fights even the costume need an awful lot of fixing.

Overall this had a lot going for it and I really enjoyed most of it.
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#2 Tom Lowe

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 02:16 AM

i don't like the fast editing cuts a lot of recent action movies have used. it's a cop out, IMO. if you don't really know how to block and stage a fight scene, just do a bunch of rapid cutting and cross your fingers...

Quantum of Solace took it way too far. The opening shot of the car chase was ridiculous.
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#3 Walter Graff

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:53 AM

We watched it. Far too long. The movie had no center. It was like a movie that had an idea but didn't know what to do with it. The 'two-face ending' was obviously some attempt to fill in the Ledger shots that were not done before his death. It came from no where and went no where. Like a new movie. Obviously they needed closure on the movie and Ledger didn't make it long enough to shoot the origional climax. Just didn't work. One of Oldman's (my favorite actor) lamest characters. And poor Eric Roberts. How low some have gone. It was hard to watch Maggie Gyllenhaal as she physicaly reminded me of a older and less attractive Kirsten Dunst. Just couldn't belive her as a character between that and her paper thin acting. The look of the film was like two difernt films combined. The juxtaposition of the daylight scenes and the rest of the film shot in a studio didn't work. Using Chicago as Gotham City didn't work either. It's got little personality. Ledger was a good Joker, but it wasn't true to the Jokers motiff to me. He was simply evil but didn't have the Joker personna. It was clear Ledger didn't shoot all the scenes he needed to. He went from hanging by The Batmans rope near the end towards a climax to basically falling off the screen. At times anything he said was ruined when he sounded a bit like Jack Nicolson who I don't like as an actor and who ruined the joker in the earlier version. Cesar Romero captured it best for me in both style and perosnna based on the origional comic although the TV version pales in energy with any of the films. And anyone who thinks Ledgers death had something to do with him loosing himself to this role must work for the marketing department for the film. It was like watching Brendon Lee in The Crow. Close to being great but he didn't finish the film, and it wasn't a deep and disturbed role like Brando in Apocolypse Now. But he was the best portrail in hte film. And yes, the guy who played Batman was like Howard Stern playing football. Overall, worth a rental, but far from anything really worth seeing if there is something better on the shelf.
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#4 Joe Taylor

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:17 PM

i don't like the fast editing cuts a lot of recent action movies have used. it's a cop out, IMO. if you don't really know how to block and stage a fight scene, just do a bunch of rapid cutting and cross your fingers...

Quantum of Solace took it way too far. The opening shot of the car chase was ridiculous.



I agree. It's getting boring watching the hero walk through crowd of baddies taking them out with one wicked cool punch. For one of the best references on staging a fight, take a good look at "Rob Roy." Each strike and thrust has a consequence-- for both fighters. Even bad asses tire fast, and desperation soon takes over.
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#5 Joe Taylor

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:24 PM

Walter

I believe they left the Joker hanging alive, is that they planned to bring him back for the next installment.

The Jokers role was likely finished long before Health Ledger die. His post sound work was too polished. I doubt if they do the ADR post production work before the shooting is finished.
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#6 Walter Graff

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:47 PM

Thanks Joe. I actually read about it just after posting and see you are correct.He had done all principle photography. Anyway, I thought the ending was weak, and the introduction of two-face boring. If that was where the next installment was going, the jokes on us so to say. Ledger was obviously the bright spot in the movie. Maybe too bright as he was so far above every other actor as to make it even more disjointed to watch. Such a loss to loose him but really showed how much better he was than the entire cast. Like a Towering Inferno of famous has-been actors considering how many names were in it. As one reviewer said "Ledger gives a fine performance regardless, and I wish the movie around it were more deserving."

What would be good is a new reality show where people are put in the same scenario as those on the two ferrys, each has the others detonator and they have to either blow the other ship up first to survive or possibly have both blown up by the judges if a certain time passes and neighter has blow the other up... or none of them die. Various senarios are given to them and the tension is on. A good social experiemnt in teh vein of Milgrams famous experiment with shocking people. Hey if it wasn't for Milgrams we wouldn't have had the Six Degrees of Seperation with WIll Smith.
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#7 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 05:17 PM

i don't like the fast editing cuts a lot of recent action movies have used. it's a cop out, IMO. if you don't really know how to block and stage a fight scene, just do a bunch of rapid cutting and cross your fingers...

Quantum of Solace took it way too far. The opening shot of the car chase was ridiculous.


There were similar complaints about the fight scenes in Batman Begins, I saw it on the imax and it was a little overwhelming but Nolan has always been more interested in the psychology of violence, presenting the fighting as manic, disorientating and brutal, almost as if he wants you to feel a little sick and dizzy from it.

He's not a martial-arts director where the elegance or spectacle of fighting is important, nor does he seem to be too interested with the suspense nature of violence (like Hitchock) - more the feeling of it.

He lists On Her Majesties Secret Service as one of his favourite films, which perhaps shows how he is so comfortable with high-concept/comic book films but you may also notice stages its fight scenes in exactly the same way, long lenses, whip pans, zooms, lots of close shots, lack of wides etc...

Its unfortunate though that at this time that others are over-using it and perhaps taking it a little too far.
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#8 Joe Giambrone

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 05:21 PM

"The edited fight sequences were edited by someone who likes computer games..."

In a way I agree. The cutting was too fast, too jumpy, and the blocking was nearly incompetent in terms of being clear what was happening (and to whom). That was very disconcerting and one of the weak parts of the film.

On the other hand, on repeated viewing, it used the high tech, very Batmanesque visual aid from the sonar, where his eyes lit up. That made it difficult for us mere mortals to follow. But, the intent seemed to be that Batman was above us in ability to see and fight, and so in a way it worked.

Here's how to shoot a fight scene, in my opinion:


My bigger problem with Batman was the lack of character development at the beginning. I was supposed to care, and I didn't. I felt completely disconnected from Batman and his little melodramas. That was a far more problematic issue to me.
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#9 Mark Williams

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 07:00 PM

My bigger problem with Batman was the lack of character development at the beginning. I was supposed to care, and I didn't. I felt completely disconnected from Batman and his little melodramas. That was a far more problematic issue to me.

-------------------------------------------------

The funny thing is having grown up with Batman through the comics the series and the films I feel like I know Bruce wayne quite well I thought Michael Keaton really cemented it... I actually liked just about everything in this apart from the action scenes and silly Bat voice which for me just took me out of this wonderful ambience of uncertainty and different world. the eyes lghting up just added to the broken illusion But Heath Ledger really should get a posthumous oscar his role in my opinion was truly brilliant. I could watch him all day and be fascinated.
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#10 Max Jacoby

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 05:44 AM

But Heath Ledger really should get a posthumous oscar his role in my opinion was truly brilliant.

It's the kind of show-of performance that Academy voters love. Kinda like the way David Fincher is an eternal filmstudent favorite, because there are so many obvious 'cool' shots in his films.
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#11 Keith Mottram

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 01:25 PM

watched it on dvd again over christmas with my parents, who thought it was a bit pants, as for me it only got worse on the second viewing and i doubt whether i'll ever give it a third. also watched casino royal with them, fun watching pictures like that with 60 odd year old ex cinefiles. everyone enjoyed bond. popcorn movies can and should be fun- and should not out stay their welcome by about an hour as is the case with the bloated boring batman. btw if he can pop over to hong kong for the sake of a bit of drug money cant he go and do something genuinely useful like sort out the middle east etc etc...
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#12 Keith Mottram

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 01:28 PM

There were similar complaints about the fight scenes in Batman Begins, I saw it on the imax and it was a little overwhelming but Nolan has always been more interested in the psychology of violence, presenting the fighting as manic, disorientating and brutal, almost as if he wants you to feel a little sick and dizzy from it.

He's not a martial-arts director where the elegance or spectacle of fighting is important, nor does he seem to be too interested with the suspense nature of violence (like Hitchock) - more the feeling of it.



i tried very hard to remember fight scenes that were as bad and then i remembered the time when i was too stoned to turn of ultraviolet when i 'accidentally' channel hopped onto it earlier this year...
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#13 A. Whitehouse

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 02:42 PM

Wow that clip from "The Protector" is pretty memorable. Its amazing how fit some steadicam ops and performers are. Id make it up the first flight and need to cut, they go up four stories. I find most modern fight scenes disorienting and boring, give me a "Drunken Master" or "Once upon a time in China" anyday, in the last few years shakey cam has taken over. I don't even know how editors make the decision to cut when they do in those films. They're often cutting from one shot with zero information to another with less. I guess they work with what they're given...
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#14 A. Whitehouse

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 02:48 PM

Double post mistake...

Edited by A. Whitehouse, 07 January 2009 - 02:49 PM.

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#15 Daniel Carruthers

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 05:58 PM

I felt there was lots of character development.
and the 2 face ending was great,but thats my opinion
And I could clearly see what was going on during the fight scenes?
no offense,but maybe you guys need your eyes checked??
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#16 Ruairi Robinson

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:13 PM

I felt there was lots of character development.
and the 2 face ending was great,but thats my opinion
And I could clearly see what was going on during the fight scenes?
no offense,but maybe you guys need your eyes checked??


Don't interrupt - there's a backlash in progress!
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