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Beaulieu 4008 Lense Question...


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#1 Kane George Jason

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 02:33 AM

Hi Guys & Girls,

One question: can i use slr lenses on the c-mount of the Beaulieu 4008?

For example, the Canon FD lenses? Those primes are fairly decent and cheap (compared to other cine primes anyway), its just im not 100% sure if they are compatible? By that i mean optical, not mounting compatability.

Or do i have to stick to specific cine lenses?

Cheers, Kane.

By the way, a big thanks to everyone that contributes here, i find it very informational, since coming from hd/dv to film :) Thanks!

Edited by Kane George Jason, 05 January 2009 - 02:34 AM.

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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 09:42 AM

Yes.

As long as you can find an adapter, any lens used on a 35mm camera or will work provided you can manually adjust the aperture. The newest Nikon lenses designed for DSLR cameras don't have an aperture ring and rely on the camera body to do that.

However, you'd probably be looking for some ultra-wide lenses and costs can go up considerably. Usable lenses for a Super 8 camera would be from 6mm-24mm probably unless you needed telephoto lengths and use a tripod.

Another alternative is to look into C-Mount TV lenses. They are usually cheaper both in quality and price but can be found in 6mm focal lengths. I have one for my 4008 and found it to fun to use although not very sharp. Also is nice because it makes the camera compact and light.
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#3 Kane George Jason

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:06 AM

Thanks for the reply Will!

Yes.

As long as you can find an adapter, any lens used on a 35mm camera or will work provided you can manually adjust the aperture. The newest Nikon lenses designed for DSLR cameras don't have an aperture ring and rely on the camera body to do that.


By adapter, i suppose you mean a simple mount adapter, like C to FD, and not a optical device such as a dof adapter.

However, you'd probably be looking for some ultra-wide lenses and costs can go up considerably. Usable lenses for a Super 8 camera would be from 6mm-24mm probably unless you needed telephoto lengths and use a tripod.


Yep. Wide angles is definitly something i'm looking for. Buy why do you say from 6mm? Technically speaking, why cant it be less?

Another alternative is to look into C-Mount TV lenses. They are usually cheaper both in quality and price but can be found in 6mm focal lengths. I have one for my 4008 and found it to fun to use although not very sharp. Also is nice because it makes the camera compact and light.


I can see the compact aspect being good, but my aim is to get the little s8mm frames a little shaper than what can be achieved from the old zoom lenses found on the cameras origianally.


And one more; will all lenses cover the super duper 8mm? If not, what ones do i stay away from?
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 03:19 PM

Yep. Wide angles is definitly something i'm looking for. Buy why do you say from 6mm? Technically speaking, why cant it be less?

You mentioned you were looking at lenses usually used on 35mm cameras or DSLRs right? I haven't seen many lenses wider than 8mm and currently the widest I see from Canon is 14mm. Technically if a 4mm lens could be made with a Canon mount, I'm sure a Canon to C-Mount adapter would work with it.

I can see the compact aspect being good, but my aim is to get the little s8mm frames a little shaper than what can be achieved from the old zoom lenses found on the cameras origianally.

The lens that comes with the 4008 is one of the sharpest you're going to find for Super 8. Using other Canon or Nikon lenses with an adapter would be good if you already have these lenses and want to try them or if you have some specialized ones like a Peleng 8mm or something but it wouldn't give you that much of an improvement in sharpness... just concentrate on perfect focus. Stay away from those cheap TV lenses I mentioned if you're looking for sharpness.

And one more; will all lenses cover the super duper 8mm? If not, what ones do i stay away from?

Any lens designed for a 35mm SLR or even a DSLR will cover the entire frame of Super 16mm so certainly it would cover "Super Duper 8". It would only use the center 8mm of the 35mm coverage.

Here's what one of those adapters would look like:

Posted Image

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#5 Kane George Jason

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 09:02 PM

You mentioned you were looking at lenses usually used on 35mm cameras or DSLRs right? I haven't seen many lenses wider than 8mm and currently the widest I see from Canon is 14mm. Technically if a 4mm lens could be made with a Canon mount, I'm sure a Canon to C-Mount adapter would work with it.


Ok. I see. Well i guess it doesn't entirely matter if the lens is of slr origin or not, it's just in slr terms, the canon fd's lenses are great in terms of quality/price, so i thought it would mean they would be great value for super8 too.

The lens that comes with the 4008 is one of the sharpest you're going to find for Super 8. Using other Canon or Nikon lenses with an adapter would be good if you already have these lenses and want to try them or if you have some specialized ones like a Peleng 8mm or something but it wouldn't give you that much of an improvement in sharpness... just concentrate on perfect focus. Stay away from those cheap TV lenses I mentioned if you're looking for sharpness.


Yep, i was going to stay away from the tv lenses :) I realise you were saying that for price wise. But do you really think that the old zoom lenses would be as good as a set of primes? Either way, when i do a film with my little beaulieu, ill make sure i bring my tape measure!

Any lens designed for a 35mm SLR or even a DSLR will cover the entire frame of Super 16mm so certainly it would cover "Super Duper 8". It would only use the center 8mm of the 35mm coverage.


Am i that new to the proper film world that it is as easy as saying the lens is for 35mm, and a number below it, as 8 & 16 are, would be covered?
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#6 Will Montgomery

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 10:26 AM

It gets a little confusing when I say a lens for a "35mm slr" because THAT 35mm refers to the FILM SIZE. This extremely rough mockup shows in general what the coverage would be with a lens designed for a 35mm still camera...


film_coverage.gif
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#7 Kane George Jason

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 11:20 AM

It gets a little confusing when I say a lens for a "35mm slr" because THAT 35mm refers to the FILM SIZE. This extremely rough mockup shows in general what the coverage would be with a lens designed for a 35mm still camera...


No, thats great Will. Thats what i meant, so i guess im starting to grasp this. Thanks so much for the info. I guess using a lens that is designed for a larger format would be better for the smaller format as it doesnt get as close to the edges of the glass. Thanks Will!
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#8 Chris Burke

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:14 PM

Hi Guys & Girls,

One question: can i use slr lenses on the c-mount of the Beaulieu 4008?

For example, the Canon FD lenses? Those primes are fairly decent and cheap (compared to other cine primes anyway), its just im not 100% sure if they are compatible? By that i mean optical, not mounting compatability.

Or do i have to stick to specific cine lenses?

Cheers, Kane.

By the way, a big thanks to everyone that contributes here, i find it very informational, since coming from hd/dv to film :) Thanks!



Lots of people are starting to use the Nikon and Canon primes with Super 8, although as stated, they are not very wide, but cheap and sharp. There might be some 5 or 6mm c mount lenses out there, just keep looking. But the best solution, albeit an expensive one, is to get at C-mount to PL adapter and use Super 16 lenses. You could rent the best out there or perhaps purchase a set of Zeiss Super speeds. They will be plenty sharp and fast. I feel that the stock lens on a 4008 is hit or miss. Sometimes it is fantastic, other times not so. The biggest enemy to Super 8's sharpness is the lack of registration. Some cameras are better than others, but at the end of the day, it boils down to the cartridge. If you are really flush, you can rent a Canon 6.6 - 66 zoom. You would need quite a bit of support when it is attached to the camera, but it is a sharper lens than many primes out there, except of course for SK4s and Ultra 16s. Visual Products sells the c mount to PL adapters for I think $500, ouch!
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#9 Will Montgomery

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:34 AM

There ARE some really good c-mount lenses out there and plenty of wide ones but I don't know which manufacturers to look for. I have some older ones for my Kodak K-100 16mm camera that work on my 4008 but they aren't as wide as I would like.
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#10 Kane George Jason

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:49 AM

I think that is a better option, so i can use the same lenses with my 8 & 16mm cameras. Although, using the canon FD primes should work with 16mm too then, shouldnt they?
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