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2.35 ground glass for SRII


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#1 Tom Banks

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 12:01 AM

Hey Guys,
So I've got a project coming up in which we're shooting on the SR2 and we've decided to frame for 2.35. Has anyone replaced the ground glass in the SR2? I've already talked to Clairmont, Otto Nemenz and Hollywood Camera, none of witch owned any ground glass marked for 2.35. Hollywood Camera said they had a way of marking on the glass, which makes me a little nervous.

If anyone has any previous experience I'd love to hear it. I've got a few more camera houses to call before I settle with other options.

Thanks,
Tom
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:23 AM

Tom,

Is the camera super 16 already and does it have an ARRI factory Super 16 fibre optics screen in it? If the answer to both of these is yes then you could mark the screen yourself with Scotch Tape. I have done that before with SR screens. I use Scotch "Magic Tape" the kind that is frosted. Put a 2.35 chart on a wall. Focus the camera on the chart, noting where the image falls on the fibre optic screen, making sure the chart is lined up with both the right and left side of the fibre optics screen. Then take your Hirschman's forceps and remove the screen, and very carefully put the Scotch tape on the top and bottom edge to mark where the 2.35 image falls. Put the screen back in, check it. If it is a little off, take it back out, adjust it, put it back in. Repeat until you have it in the right position.

Remove the tape as soon as you finish shooting on the last day and use a fresh piece of tape to remove any residue left behind.

You can see a similar procedure being done on the Arriflex 16S on the web page below:

Taping the ground glass.

Best,
-Tim
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#3 A. Whitehouse

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:32 AM

Ive used marked ground glasses before with out a problem. Sometimes down with a light etching of those soft pencils ( are they called china pens? ). It can make for a very crowded eyepiece experience if you're operating otherwise not a hassle. I wonder what they did on "The Wrestler"?
Oh and this was on an SR2, and Ive seen it done more than once. Good luck.
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#4 Michael McInerney

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:20 PM

With the Wrestler, I believe they shot anamorphically, actually.
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#5 Jayson Crothers

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 04:58 PM

In this months issue of AC they cover "The Wrestler" and don't mention anything about anamorphic lenses - they list Ultra 16 primes and a couple of Angenieux Optimo short zoom lenses.

Tom, if you can't find a S16 ground glass w/2:39 markings, then what Tim described below works just fine - I've done it on four projects over the years. It's time consuming and tedious to get it right (or maybe it just was for me because I've got such big hands and that ground-glass is so tiny), but you can do it yourself if need be. I suspect Hollywood Camera would be doing something similar with some kind of pencil markings (as opposed to tape), but that's just a guess. You can pick up the Arri forceps at filmtools for under $20. The key is to shoot your own charts based off your markings.

Your other option is to leave the ground-glass alone and just mask off your onboard monitor (assuming you have one). I'm not a fan of this because now you're at the mercy of operating the whole film off the monitor, and unless it's a GREAT tap, you can miss a lot of things (focus, elements in the frame you don't like that are hard to see on a low-rez tap, etc).
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#6 timHealy

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 12:16 PM

With the Wrestler, I believe they shot anamorphically, actually.


They did not shoot anamorphic. They shot super 16 with a ground glass marked for 2.35.


best

Tim
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#7 David Rakoczy

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 12:30 PM

Tom.. have any Rental House mark your Ground Glass.. I have shot numerous shows this way... Camtec (818-841-8700) did mine but any quality rental House will do... be sure to shoot an accurate Framing Chart at the head of Roll #1.

Enjoy your wide compositions!

Edited by David Rakoczy, 16 January 2009 - 12:31 PM.

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#8 Michael McInerney

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 02:34 PM

They did not shoot anamorphic. They shot super 16 with a ground glass marked for 2.35.


Right, right, it was the transfer that was anamorphic, my mistake. They were printing the film last time I was at Technicolor.
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#9 Tom Banks

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:28 PM

Thanks everyone for quite a comprehensive response! I was initially hesitant to use any scotch tape methods because I've heard how when peeling off the tape it can remove the normal markings and make for a costly repair or replacement of the glass... But sounds like I shouldn't worry as much about that. We are shooting on a modified SR2 so S16 in combination with the 50D will make for a pretty nice image. I shot another short on regular 16 and 50D and after the HD transfer I was highly impressed with the image quality, so I'm looking forward to this. We're choosing 16 specifically because the director is going towards a 70s exploitation vibe.

I'm about to put up a post in "In Production" with some location stills I shot already if anyone's interested.

Thanks again everyone!

Tom
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#10 David Rakoczy

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:11 PM

Don't be afraid of the scotch tape method... when I said I had mine marked many times, I failed to mention it was with scotch tape. ;)

Mr. Carroll gave you everything you need to know... or take it to a rental house.
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#11 Walter West

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 02:37 PM

Hi,

 

I purchased an SR2 and wanted to frame for 1.78 viewing. Can someone please explain to me what a ground glass is and where it is located on the camera?

 

Thanks,

Walter


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#12 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:58 PM

The ground glass is a small screen located above the mirror/shutter that sits at the same optical depth as the film plane so that when the mirror covers the film it reflects the image up onto the ground glass and recreates exactly what is being recorded on the film. The frosted screen allows the image to be formed and focussed on by the viewfinder optics, so it's a crucial part of the reflex viewing system.

You can remove the ground glass (sometimes called a fibre screen by Arri) using a tool called a Hirschman clamp, which has two little wire arms at the end that close and grab the ground glass handle. If you look into the lens port you'll see the front edge of the ground glass at the top. Any established rental house that used to rent film cameras should have Hirschman clamps lying around.

You should get hold of a user manual where this and many other aspects of the camera are explained.
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#13 Walter West

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:43 PM

Thanks Dom,

 

I just spoke to Paul at VisualProducts and they are having one made for me with 1.66, 1.78, and 1.85 viewing guides. Appreciate it.


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#14 Giray Izcan

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:43 PM

I wouldn't have all those markings on one groundglass to be honest. Especially if you're shooting something with critical framing, to me it feels like, I would get confused at some point.
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#15 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:54 PM

Thanks Dom,

 

I just spoke to Paul at VisualProducts and they are having one made for me with 1.66, 1.78, and 1.85 viewing guides. Appreciate it.

The frame lines at top and bottom are going to be very close together. Might be a little confusing. I used to shoot a lot of s16 for 16:9 television, and never bothered with 1.78:1 markings.


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#16 Walter West

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 10:02 PM

The frame lines at top and bottom are going to be very close together. Might be a little confusing. I used to shoot a lot of s16 for 16:9 television, and never bothered with 1.78:1 markings.

 

I wouldn't have all those markings on one groundglass to be honest. Especially if you're shooting something with critical framing, to me it feels like, I would get confused at some point.

 

I never thought of that. Unfortunately I already made the purchase. 

 

Thanks for the advice though.


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#17 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 11:25 PM

Walter,

You could talk to Paul at VP about what the frame markings actually are, to look at.  I have a couple of cameras with VP S16 artwork on the re-etched gg and the 4:1 frame is indicated with short lines at the top and bottom,  very useful but not intrusive, so I wondered how they were doing yours,  in terms of the artwork.

 

VP probably use Surco to re-etch the gg and provide them the artwork.  

 

If you look into this,  please let us know,  are Surco still doing the gg's etc...

 

EDIT: Meaning that VP provide the artwork to Surco.


Edited by Gregg MacPherson, 27 July 2017 - 11:34 PM.

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#18 Walter West

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 11:55 PM

Walter,

You could talk to Paul at VP about what the frame markings actually are, to look at.  I have a couple of cameras with VP S16 artwork on the re-etched gg and the 4:1 frame is indicated with short lines at the top and bottom,  very useful but not intrusive, so I wondered how they were doing yours,  in terms of the artwork.

 

VP probably use Surco to re-etch the gg and provide them the artwork.  

 

If you look into this,  please let us know,  are Surco still doing the gg's etc...

 

EDIT: Meaning that VP provide the artwork to Surco.

 

Gregg,

 

Yes, Shurco Tools is doing the artwork. They are not doing the TV guides, just 1.78 and 1.85 guides, and it's being installed by Visual Products. Paul sent me a PDF with all the different formats available (e.g., 2.35, HDTV, 1.66, etc.). I am mostly doing 1.78 for music videos that will be uploaded online, and with future intentions to use 1.85 for independent films.

 

I would upload the PDF if I knew how.


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