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TriX stock in Daylight


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#1 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 04:01 PM

Hello!
I am in preproduction for a small film that I plan to shoot entirely on Super8 and 16mm black and white stock (using beaulieu camera - the R16 and the 5008s). I have a particular affection for the Tri X emulsion (rated at 200 ASA). I have a few exterior shots in the film and I was wondering if anyone had any experience using the TriX emulsion in broad daylight. Is it too sensitive an emulsion to shoot outdoors without an ND filter? I have been thinking about using Plus X but for practical reasons and for visual coherence, I would prefer to stick to shooting everything on Tri X. I would very much appreciate any help that you can offer up on this!
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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 04:09 PM

Hello!
I am in preproduction for a small film that I plan to shoot entirely on Super8 and 16mm black and white stock (using beaulieu camera - the R16 and the 5008s). I have a particular affection for the Tri X emulsion (rated at 200 ASA). I have a few exterior shots in the film and I was wondering if anyone had any experience using the TriX emulsion in broad daylight. Is it too sensitive an emulsion to shoot outdoors without an ND filter? I have been thinking about using Plus X but for practical reasons and for visual coherence, I would prefer to stick to shooting everything on Tri X. I would very much appreciate any help that you can offer up on this!



what is the scene you are shooting? Does it have lots of bright sky and hot whites in it? Rated at 200, it may be too fast. Why can't you use an ND. Or maybe use an yellow, orange or red filter to increase contrast. I have shot a great deal out doors and it all depends on the scene. It can be hard to expose properly, so great care has to be taken. I would use graduated ND filters so the sky doesn't blow out.

Edited by Chris Burke, 20 January 2009 - 04:10 PM.

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#3 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:54 PM

I am shooting in Paris, and the weather right now vacillates between strong sunlight and an overcast, rainy sky. I suppose I'll have to go with the ND when the sky is too bright, otherwise go for the Plus-x stock. If I go for the latter, do you think there will be a visible difference in grain or contrast? I have considered the red filter idea and may also decide to do that. What graduated ND filter for the R16 beaulieu 16mm camera would you recommend I use?
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#4 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:01 PM

hi i used the triX here in paris and it's super grainy, but that's usualy why you choose it.
red filter is a good idea if you have a bright sky with some white clouds.
a yellow filter make it good for skin tones and a green filter will enhanced the green but you'll have to wait for spring to acheive this.
don't hesitate to give me a call if you want to see the footage i have also some plus X shot in this short film shot S16 with the Kodak camera.
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#5 Mike Lary

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:25 PM

You'll see a significant difference between Tri-X and Plus-X, so I wouldn't mix them unless you're looking for a visual discontinuity.

If the overall scene is too bright, wouldn't you want a standard ND filter (not a graduated filter)?

Another question to ask yourself is what kind of DOF the film calls for. I would bring a range of ND filters so you have some flexibility and don't get stuck shooting at a specific aperture. It's better to not let the environment tie your hands when it comes to aesthetic decisions, if possible.
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#6 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:33 AM

Brilliant! Thank you very much for your kind help, and suggestions. Looks like I'm going filter shopping!
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#7 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:30 PM

A green filter will lighten green and darken red in B+W.
It is commonly used to lighten trees and foliage. Test, test, test since it can also make lips much darker than their normal gray scale rendition.
Red filters make blue skies darker thereby rendering clouds more dynamic.
Test that too because people can look very pale.
With Tri-X (or any other high speed film) outdoors, it is a good idea to have a range of ND filters.
ND grads are used in matteboxes with sliding stages so that you can position the grad.
These can be quite useful but have to be used carefully since you probably don't want actors walking into the ND gradient and suddenly getting progressively darker for no reason.
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#8 Ira Ratner

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:17 PM

I recently read an analysis of b&w filter use, and since I'm just getting into this area myself, I can't comment.

But this site said green filters are useless and to be avoided, in that yellow and orange have the same effect on the green spectrum without the negative (meaning bad) effects on other elements in the frame.

I know--depending on what you're shooting, there would seem to be a use for it, but damn--this guy's argument and data was pretty convincing in that you get the same effect with the other ones.

Edited by Ira Ratner, 21 January 2009 - 08:20 PM.

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