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Hand-processing times for Plus X in D19


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#1 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:58 PM

For those chemical enthusiasts out there, what developing times do you use for developing PlusX in D-19 home-mixed developers? I am used to developing TriX and haven't been able to find any information on whether the developing times are different, considering that it is a slower stock. I also have some experience with colour developing and I know that for colour neg, the developing times don't change according to the ASA rating. Any help on this warmly welcomed!
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#2 Simon Wyss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:25 PM

Why D-19? Kodak once recommended that formula for a fast treatment to strong contrast of plates and news film, for radiography, metallography, spectography, and aerial photography. Do you want to hammer on PXN or PXR, TXN or TXR?
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#3 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:37 PM

D19 works beautifully for TriX see the 8mm metadirectory (processing postings) for more info.
Anyone got any info about processing the Plus X?
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#4 Simon Wyss

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:48 PM

Well, I have been processing every kind of black-and-white stock by hand for nine years now. You can of course develop Tri-X reversal film which is the one you mean, isn't it, in D-19. Give it five minutes at 20 ºC with not too little agitation.
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#5 K Borowski

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:40 PM

YOu'd only wnat to use D-19 for reversal processing. . .

Do you want to achieve a negative or a positive? I assume it is Plus-X reversal you are talking about correct?
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#6 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:31 AM

My question was regarding the developing times for Plus X reversal film. I have no problem with Tri X. I would like to know if I need to change the developing times for the Plus X stock, seeing as it has a lower ASA rating.
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#7 Simon Wyss

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:47 AM

No, you don't.
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#8 JayneAmaraRoss

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:00 PM

Wonderful! Thanks!
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#9 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 07:32 AM

No, you don't.

Sadly this isn't correct I am afraid (I hope its not too late for your processing). New plus-x 7265 is an anomoly among bw reversal films in this regard. Old Plus-X, Old Tri-X and new Tri-X (7266) reversal films can all be processed in d19 using a lomo tank with a first dev time of 6 min at 20 c. New plus-X reversal (7265) however which is rated at 100 asa requires a development time of about 8 minutes in d19 (that is what I use and would be a good starting point for you) if rated at 100 asa. If rated at 50 asa it can be processed the same as the other stocks. If you process it at 6 min (or your standard dev time for bw) it will be about 1 stop under exposed. I often recommend to my customers to rate the stock as 50 so that it can be processed with other bw reversal stocks without pushing in d19. Just why new plus-x is like this is unclear (at least to me). Processed in D94 (the old kodak recommended reversal developer for MP film) it also needs to be rated at 50 or pushed one stop. Processed in the new D94a it is rated as 100 and can be processed with the new tri-x. Curiously, old plus-x isn't affected by the change in developer/bleach from d94 to d94a.
cheers,
richard
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#10 Ira Ratner

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 07:46 PM

Richard--help:

I just bought a tank (waiting for it to arrive from the Ukraine) and my head is spinning with all of this. Here's the tank:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=250361470144

And here is an OLD guide for Kodak b&w reversal processing, with old chemicals, so I can assume that my tank refers to Table II on the right, correct? (Based on the old chemistry.)

http://www.geocities...nsky/Kodak3.GIF

So what the hell do I do now for new 7265? Can I use this chart, but with WHICH chemistry? And if you recommend different chemistry, how does the chart change as far as the temps or times? I got good vibes from Jayne, so why use D19 as opposed to other(s)?

I am GUESSING that I should be making one complete pass of film every 60 seconds, hence the long development times involved. And I'm also assuming that when I load this thing, the ends of the film are clipped onto the reels so they don't fall off,

And yeah--I know temp control is a bitch, but been there...done that.

I want a developer/process that will give me the richest blacks and that typical Plus-X look.
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#11 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:36 AM

Hi there Ira,
That tank looks like a morse G3 tank. Perhaps the russians made a copy. Was it indeed a LOMO brand tank? I have never come across a lomo rewind tank. Does it have the LOMO symbol on it?
Anyway, I have never used rewind processing gear. I note you have also asked this question in the movieprocessing group. No doubt there are morse users there. Also trawl through all of Martin Baumgartens material accesible through the movieprocessing pages run by George Selinsky: http://www.geocities.com/gselinsky/
If you shoot your plus-x at 50 asa, then whatever times you hear for tri-x etc. in these tanks will be correct.

sorry i can't help
good luck with it
richard
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#12 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:38 AM

Hi there Ira,
That tank looks like a morse G3 tank. Perhaps the russians made a copy. Was it indeed a LOMO brand tank? I have never come across a lomo rewind tank. Does it have the LOMO symbol on it?
Anyway, I have never used rewind processing gear. I note you have also asked this question in the movieprocessing group. No doubt there are morse users there. Also trawl through all of Martin Baumgartens material accesible through the movieprocessing pages run by George Selinsky: http://www.geocities.com/gselinsky/
If you shoot your plus-x at 50 asa, then whatever times you hear for tri-x etc. in these tanks will be correct.

sorry i can't help
good luck with it
richard


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#13 Simon Wyss

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:46 AM

To whom it may be of interest

It is impossible to help in such circumstances where equipment, film types, and chemistry tumble all over each other. I can only advise that one begins to DIY process with test footage in order to gain some dexterity with the equipment at hand before one develops more precious stock.

Eastman-Kodak sell chemicals, correct, but they don't bother much about DIY results. Their primary concern is machine processing of most cheaply produced stocks by any way. A hand-processed black-and-white film almost always looks more crisp, but also much more uniform if well done. It's not possible to imitate hand quality with machines in black and white. It's become hardly possible to imitate machine processing of color stock by hand.

Would you, dear reader, please note that it makes a difference whether you process the five feet of a 135 film or 50 or 100 feet of ciné film. That difference lies just in the way the film is handled. I for myself have found the best mechanical arrangement after long years. It's not the rewind tank.
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#14 Ira Ratner

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:36 PM

Yeah, it's a real crap shoot with the rewind tank--which is what makes it so interesting!

I'm not doing any serious work anyway, just screwing around, but I have no problem shooting some spools and playing around processing them.

Hell, this tank would be perfect if I ever wanted to do a remake of Zelig.
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#15 K Borowski

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:57 PM

Eastman-Kodak sell chemicals, correct, but they don't bother much about DIY results. Their primary concern is machine processing of most cheaply produced stocks by any way. A hand-processed black-and-white film almost always looks more crisp, but also much more uniform if well done. It's not possible to imitate hand quality with machines in black and white. It's become hardly possible to imitate machine processing of color stock by hand.

Would you, dear reader, please note that it makes a difference whether you process the five feet of a 135 film or 50 or 100 feet of ciné film. That difference lies just in the way the film is handled. I for myself have found the best mechanical arrangement after long years. It's not the rewind tank.


Not only are modern processing machines not as nice as older spiral tanks (assuming, of course that you agitate properly), but frankly ECN-2 & ECP-2E were both designed to be more efficient NOT BETTER than the original ECN and ECP processes that they replace.

The optimal development temperature many will agree is somewhere around 20°C/68°F. Of course there is probably a range of about +/- 5°F (~3°C) in either direction from this benchmark.

One has to keep in mind that, in terms of energy efficiency, the best processing temperature should be as close to room temperature as possible to mitigate problems with irregular processing temperature. Even the best heating elements can only keep the solution temperature in a big tank consistant only to a certain point.

So, to allow for higher through-put on lab roller transport processors, Kodak replaced their room-temperature (or close) processes with high-temperature ones. This actually hurt quality and consistency of processing.
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#16 Michael Carter

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:28 PM

This film test was made using Plus X REVERSAL, which expired in 1968. It is 16mm 50 foot magazine film put into a Cine Kodak Model BB Juniour camera on a spool. The Juniour is told to have a shutter speed of 1/30 of a second.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=9knAHCfL08I
Fomadon LQR developer was used 1:10 at 9 min and 68 degrees F both first and second development
Bright sunlight was 320 foot candles. F 5.6-8 look good projected. F11 was too dark. F2.8 & 4 were too light.
Asa is 6 or 3 depending on what you like.
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#17 Michael Carter

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

D-19 was going to be used but it had gone bad in less than one month and had to be dumped, hence the switch to Fomadon LQR. it is a liquid and used as needed and not saved. D19 is a powder and all mixed at one time.
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#18 Simon Wyss

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 02:36 AM

New plus-x 7265 is an anomoly among bw reversal films in this regard. Old Plus-X, Old Tri-X and new Tri-X (7266) reversal films can all be processed in d19 using a lomo tank with a first dev time of 6 min at 20 c. New plus-X reversal (7265) however which is rated at 100 asa requires a development time of about 8 minutes in d19 if rated at 100 asa.

 

That seems to be in harmony with what Karl says, higher bath temperature. Elapsed me, pardon my undifferentiated reply.


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Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

CineLab