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#1 montaser abou saada

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:39 PM

hello , its my first time here in this amazing website , am shooting a short movie on 35 mm , and we are shooting in a big studio full of equipments , (from 200 w HMI to 4 K HMI ) , in a big numbers , the living room is a 6 by 6 (METER ) , with a 2 windows ( i will use thim as a key ) ... and there is a door in a front of them .
we planing for buelding the set , but i can control alot of things about the (windows , walls , size of the room ,..ets ) .. and am shooting kodak 500 T ..
so i have some qustions :

1 wiche is the best way to use the HMI as a sun light coming from the 2 windows ? with a shiner of cours ... i need the window to blow out but not so much , i just need to clean out the details outside ..can i put a difusion on the windows ? if yes wiche kind ?

2 the light will hit the shiner and will pass a 6 Meters to the end of the room and hit the door wich the actor will open it and walk inside the room , i'll pan with him and ill see all the room ...
so the question is : if i take a reading from the door and shooting on it , is the shiner going to blow out ? or is there going to be an OVEREXPOSIOR near the windows and this part of the room ?

3 , can i use a light box , and put a golden reflector inside of it and then put it on the window and shine 4 K HMI lets say inside of it ?

4 all the HMI i mentiond is MADE IN FRANCE , not ARRI , and it soo old by model not by using , so shell i go and use it or rent something from ARRI ?

5 if you were me , and u have most of option's what wold you DO !?

its my first time as DP and am happy , and i know most of what i asked is silly questions but i need to be sure ..

thanks everybody ,,, and sorry my bad english ...
CHEERS
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#2 Frederico Beja

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 04:49 AM

Hey montaser abou saada

First of all, welcome to the forum :)

Your questions are not silly at all. If this is your first time as a DP, I'd say you're already doing a good job by trying to learn different ways of doing the scene beforehand. This way you make sure u know what you are doing!

I have to tell thou, that all depends on the look, mood and tone of the film... U might want something really hard and with lots of contrast, or u might want something softer, or even something totally washed out (if this is the case, and if you're using film, a bleach bypass could give u a certain look - I hope I'm not confusing you even more... Sorry if I am)

Also, the blown out outside always depends on the amount of light you'll have inside, and the stop you will be using..

So, and if you have that kind of equipment, my first suggestion (but this is just how I like to work, other DPs might think differently), is to use your biggest light(s) as the key (in this case, the 4k HMI.) For several reasons: you u want the outside to look bright, u might as well start with a big light and scrim it down. it's easier than start with a small one, and then realize that's not enough, and you end up having to change the entire unit.

Once again, I don't know the mood you're trying to set up, but I'd do it with the 4k HMI, , maybe running thru an opal diffusion. This will stop the light down, make it less hard, and spread it a little bit inside the room. If you feel the window is too blown out, you can always use ND gels to cover them.
Don't forget that you're using tungsten stock, and the HMI reads as daylight, so you have to use a filter on the camera, which will bring you 2/3 of a stop down. Otherwise, the HMI will read really blue on the film.

I'm a contrast lover, so I'd keep the shadows hard. But if you want detail on the room as you pan, and the stop ratio is too high, because you're in a studio, I'd just lit the all room evenly, from above, and silk it. Make sure you cover the entire silk with this light coming from the ceiling. This will make your ambiance brighter for a couple of stops, decreasing your ratio for the "sunlight", and making you not lose detail as you pan.

Depending on the size of your light box, you could use it with the HMI, but I wouldn't. HMIs get really really hot, and plus, if your goal is to reflect the light, just use shinny boards...

Once again, this is just what I would do, based on the descriptions and equipment you gave me. Other DPs will think in another way. Just go there, try it, take some stills, see what better suits you, and shoot whenever you fell ready!

Hope that helps!!
Good luck!
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#3 Serge Teulon

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 07:51 AM

Hey Montaser,

As Frederico has already mentioned, tell us about what feeling you want to recreate.
Only with this information can we give you the right advice.


I must say also at this stage, that it seems that you have a lot of light power for 500asa stock in studio.
Again though it is down to the feel that you are trying to achieve.
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#4 montaser abou saada

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 08:55 AM

montey.jpg first of all , thank's for u guys ...

about the mood , the story about a prisoner who's just got out of prison , and he enter his house at the afternoon with every thing coverd( becoz nobody's home for along time ) and dusty , i felt like i want the sunlight to be warm more than usual , with a shiner .
but there is another window (between this room and the kitchen ) and this window could pass some light , just some to be real but not direct light ... as you see in the diagram .... angel 5 is what i conserned about ,( this shots in many deferant scene's ) all INT- D ..
and also i have a door next to the window , i can put some difused light in it ..
and here is another question .. : the more the shiner is thick the more its going to blow out , and the more its thin it will let the light pass through it and wont blow out .... am i right ???
give me you'r opinion about diagram , how would u light it ??
thanks everybody ...
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#5 Serge Teulon

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 09:49 AM

So this guy has just left prison and enters a house that hasn't been used for a while.
Firstly, you need to figure out what direction and through which window the sun is coming in from.

I would suggest the windows by the table.

Also the advice I'm giving you is without knowing how much freedom of movement you require.

As a foundation, you can put maybe something like 2 x 4k's in each window with some diff (250, opal etc..)on the front as key
With mirrors you can bounce a 2k to put things like direct 'sunlight' on the walls or whatever you want.

for fill I would tape a bit of bleached muslin to whichever wall you are not using and fire a joker or 2 (dependant on levels that you want) straight into it.
I think this is best for fill as it would feel more natural as the house has been left un-used for a while. Therefore not much life in it.

All the other touch ups would be pending on what you are shooting and what you can see.

Does this help?

Edited by Serge Teulon, 23 January 2009 - 09:53 AM.

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#6 montaser abou saada

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 10:53 AM

montey_KKKKKKKKK.jpg
thanks serge , but there is one window and this window connect the liveing room with the kitchen , so i must use the windows next to the couch .
about the filler is it going to be the same tempreture as the sunlight from the window ? or use a 5600 k , coz i was thinking put CTO on the source to recreat sunlight ... and using the window u mentiond as a source to light the far side of the room with 5600k without CTO recrating skylight comming from the kitchen and from it to the room... ?
and about the 5OOT , is it better to use 250 D ? i want the 5OOT to have more frredom ...

So this guy has just left prison and enters a house that hasn't been used for a while.
Firstly, you need to figure out what direction and through which window the sun is coming in from.

I would suggest the windows by the table.

Also the advice I'm giving you is without knowing how much freedom of movement you require.

As a foundation, you can put maybe something like 2 x 4k's in each window with some diff (250, opal etc..)on the front as key
With mirrors you can bounce a 2k to put things like direct 'sunlight' on the walls or whatever you want.

for fill I would tape a bit of bleached muslin to whichever wall you are not using and fire a joker or 2 (dependant on levels that you want) straight into it.
I think this is best for fill as it would feel more natural as the house has been left un-used for a while. Therefore not much life in it.

All the other touch ups would be pending on what you are shooting and what you can see.

Does this help?


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#7 Serge Teulon

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 01:49 PM

Hey Montaser,

I miss read your floor plan.
You're right you will have to key light from the windows behind the sofa.
Try and break that light up with some curtain, blinds etc.....

Unless you want the room to look like it is inundated with sun light, with the fill I wouldn't use the same temperature as Key.
Also, keep in mind that full CTO will render a sunset look. Is that what you have in mind?

You should really do a test and figure out what temperature suits your story. Can you do a test?
Maybe if you have a reference photo you can post for the temperature you would like to achieve....

Point 4 - It seems that you are not sure about the HMI's you have at your disposal. HMI's are unpredictable lights as far as I am concerned.
Is there a particular reason why you want to go HMI and not tungsten?


As for stock, it is down to aesthetics.
500asa is very fast and tends to be used more for night time work. That doesn't mean you can't use in daytime but the grain structure is big.

I recently shot a s35mm short, in a stage, with a small number of units and 200T was fine for me.
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#8 Frederico Beja

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 06:37 PM

and about the 5OOT , is it better to use 250 D ? i want the 5OOT to have more frredom ...


Is this the only scene you have on that location?
It it is, you'll be more than fine with 250, or even 200.
With the lights that you have, and being the room 6mx6m, this will be enough. And this way, you won't have any problems concerning film grain. Besides, 200 or 250 are more rich in color than 500...

You're shooting 35, you have a huge latitude, so I wouldn't worry about not having enough lights.

I agree with Serge, you'll be fine!

Edited by Frederico Beja, 23 January 2009 - 06:38 PM.

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#9 montaser abou saada

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 11:59 AM

realy , thank you guys ... i'v learnd alot form you ...
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