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First Super 16mm Short


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#1 Evan Andrew John Prosofsky

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 05:26 PM

Hello!

People on this forum have always been very polite and helpful, i hope you guys don't mind answering these quick questions of mine. I'm shooting a short film on Super 16mm. There is only one rental house in Edmonton Alberta and the only camera i can use is the ARRI SR3. I have available to me a zeiss 11-110mm t2.2 zoom lens, a video tap, and two 400ft mags.

Questions:
1. Does anyone have experience with this zoom? How much does it breath? Is it sharp? Or I guess what I'm trying to say is, is it useable? Can it be trusted? The director is shooting S16mm in hopes of getting an older, softer look. A little like terrance malicks badlands.
3. I have been unable to find prices for kodaks S16mm vision3 500T stock, how much per foot does it run on average? The director mandates we use it for the increased dynamic range.

Thankyou!

Also if there are any tricks of the trade or important notes in regards to the SR3 or the video tap please let me know!
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 05:57 PM

That Zeiss 11-110 T2.2 zoom is the best Super 16 zoom Zeiss made. It is a very nice lens (as long as it is the true 11-110 T2.2 and not the converted 12-120 T2.4 lens). It does breath pretty much though it is rather sharp. I always felt it had a pretty cool look, as opposed to the warmer look of the Cooke 10.4-52 T2.8.

Last time I saw a Kodak price list a 400 ft roll of 7219 (Vision 3 500T) was going for $146.18 in US dollars.

Best,
-Tim
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#3 Evan Andrew John Prosofsky

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 06:17 PM

Would there be any way to check whether it is the original lens, or a converted version? Thankyou for your insight.

Additional questions:
1. After doing some reading about the different super 16mm film stocks I am now a tad worried about shooting the new vision 3 stock. What in your professional opinions is the best choice for a film stock? We want a fairly clean look. We will be doing a 1080p telecine to digital at MOST, maybe even just to SD. I'm concerned about the possible lack of sharpness and immense graininess I'm told the s16mm 7219 exhibits. What we really don't want is that 'grainy amateur b+w art film' look. Like that movie Pi, gross. Is there a massive(or worthwhile) difference in dynamic range between 7219 and another super16 stock? What can you guys recommend? If i rate it at 320 should I be okay?

Thankyou so much
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#4 Ian Cooper

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 06:42 PM

Choice of filmstock can be based on numerous things, but a good first step would be to look at how much light you have to work with!

If you're shooting outside during daylight, then something like 50D might be a better idea, if you're shooting in a dark hole at night with limited lighting equipment available, then 500T might be more appropriate.
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#5 Evan Andrew John Prosofsky

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 07:16 PM

Maybe 70% of the film will take place outdoors, in the early morning and afternoon. The rest will be shot during magic hour and at night. I understand you're implying 50D would be more appropriate for outdoor shooting, and I agree. But the director is all caught up in choosing a film stock with the greatest dynamic range, specifically in regards to highlight handling.
Excuse my ignorance, but vision 3 has more dynamic range than vision 2, right? And vision 3 is 500 speed. Whereas there are lots of vision 2 stocks to choose from in varying speeds? Basically we want a stock with great highlight handling, but don't want to sacrifice image sharpness and grain. We come from a digital background and are excited to shoot our first short on film. Reading the article on the kodak website about Peter Greenaways film was very encouraging because he essentially said that shooting with films greater dynamic range allowed him to focus more on the film and less on the lighting. When I light for digital I have to be very particular with my highlights, and i greatly dislike how easily they burn out. We want to be able to place an actor infront of a blaring sun and still get something beautiful and relatively useable. Can anyone informed about all the different super 16mm film stocks please help me choose a stock with great highlight handling but also okay sharpness and (hopefully) fine grain.

Thankyou.
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#6 marc barbé

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 04:47 AM

Hello!

People on this forum have always been very polite and helpful, i hope you guys don't mind answering these quick questions of mine. I'm shooting a short film on Super 16mm. There is only one rental house in Edmonton Alberta and the only camera i can use is the ARRI SR3. I have available to me a zeiss 11-110mm t2.2 zoom lens, a video tap, and two 400ft mags.

Questions:
1. Does anyone have experience with this zoom? How much does it breath? Is it sharp? Or I guess what I'm trying to say is, is it useable? Can it be trusted? The director is shooting S16mm in hopes of getting an older, softer look. A little like terrance malicks badlands.
3. I have been unable to find prices for kodaks S16mm vision3 500T stock, how much per foot does it run on average? The director mandates we use it for the increased dynamic range.

Thankyou!

Also if there are any tricks of the trade or important notes in regards to the SR3 or the video tap please let me know!


Hi,
400feet will run about ten minutes of film.
Make sure you test the 500 ASA stock with your mags. Recent film stock is more fragile. A friend of mine used it with an S16 Aaton LTR and it showed some kind of a flare on the perf side of the neg. He had to have his mags modified to prevent this.
If you want a straight blow up to 35mm (without scan of the 16mm neg), there will be a grain and diffusion issue with 500 stock.
I suggest you also try the late Fuji 2OO ASA stock; great dynamics, beautiful blacks (watch out for red tones on skin; use make up on actors), works well for night indoors and low light outdoors.
Good luck,
Marc.
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#7 Ian Cooper

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 05:44 AM

If neither yourself nor the director have much experience with using film and its characteristics, then it is probably a good idea for you to test a selection of different filmstocks under similar situations to those you'll be shooting under, and decide what achieves your goals best based on that. If you bought 100ft spools of three or four different stocks then that'll give you something to base your judgment on, and test how best to rate the film - oh, and don't forget Fuji sell film as well as Kodak! ;)

I don't have much personal experience of V3 500T to say how much 'extra' latitude there may be, instinctively I'd say such extra would be of more use filming in high contrast dark situations with areas of bright light, rather than outdoors during daylight hours, but as I say, that's personal guess-work!

I think you'll find even the Vision2 stocks have more latitude to offer than you're used to with video. There seems little point settling on V3 500T in advance on the basis of a claim that it offers more latitude than V2, if you find it also gives more grain that you're happy with. After testing you may find one of the Vision2 stocks still offer more than enough latitude compared to video, but are slow enough not to show unacceptable levels of grain.

Edited by Ian Cooper, 25 January 2009 - 05:44 AM.

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#8 Evan Andrew John Prosofsky

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:42 AM

Thanks a lot for all the insight. Very informative and interesting. I think I'll just have to do some tests for myself and see what I like. I was thinking of sending everything to cinelicious for telecine. Good idea? Bad idea?
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Tai Audio

Visual Products

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Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Glidecam

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Wooden Camera

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

CineLab

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc