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Shooting/Telecine of non Super-16 with 16:9 guides


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#1 Scott Lovejoy

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:28 PM

I figured I would start here because this is the student forum, even though my problem bleeds into 16mm and telecine.

Firstly,
I go to a school that has a pretty okay selection of Arri SRs. A few of them have been modified with the Super-16 gate, but they are reserved for thesis students.

I am in my last production class before shooting my thesis (I'm a grad student) and would like to shoot with super-16, because that's the aspect ratio I want for my thesis. Some of the non-Super16 cameras have the glass marked for Super 16, and I know that you can indicate to the lab tech what you're actually shooting for (using one of those guide sheets), so that is what I plan on doing. My first question is: are there any problems that come up from using this technique?

Secondly,
Up until this point, and on this project we've been doing SD transfers. If I shoot and telecine using this technique I believe that the picture will be squished on normal TVs. What will happen if I do an HD transfer? What are my options?

So far I've come up with these, as possibilities:
Shoot it for 16x9 guides, SD transfer, don't tell the tech and then use a matte in post.
Shoot it for 16x9 guides, SD transfer, tell the tech, and never show it on an SD tv.
Shoot it for 16x9 guides, HD transfer, and I'm a little fuzzy on what happens here (using 4x3 or 16x9)


Thanks to anyone who can help me out, or point me in the right direction.
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#2 Mike Lary

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:53 PM

I'm a little confused. Are you shooting on a regular 16 camera and planning on cropping to 16:9?

The only reason I would consider getting an SD scan would be if I were shooting at a high ISO, because HD scans will make your grain more apparent, possibly at a level you aren't comfortable. HD gives you the option of getting a flat transfer and doing color correction in post instead of in the telecine suite, and HD is the better format for distribution.

As far as cropping to the desired aspect ratio is concerned, doing that in telecine is a permanent adjustment. I would scan the entire frame and add a matte in post. You might run into a situation where you wish you had more of the frame to deal with. Maybe your framing went a little off during a dolly move or you need to smooth out a rough moving shot.
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#3 Scott Lovejoy

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:34 PM

I'm a little confused. Are you shooting on a regular 16 camera and planning on cropping to 16:9?

The only reason I would consider getting an SD scan would be if I were shooting at a high ISO, because HD scans will make your grain more apparent, possibly at a level you aren't comfortable. HD gives you the option of getting a flat transfer and doing color correction in post instead of in the telecine suite, and HD is the better format for distribution...


Yes, it's an Arri SR that hasn't been modified for Super-16, so it shoots 4x3, but lines have been added to the glass, so not only do TV and 4:3 lines show up, but 16:9 lines show up as well.

I haven't decided on a stock yet. This will probably pretty low budget and have a small crew, so I may be shooting 7219 or 7218, but I will probably do tests first. I would like the most latitude possible for color correction that doesn't involve the telecine suite, so that is a definite plus for HD.
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#4 Mike Lary

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:25 PM

Yes, it's an Arri SR that hasn't been modified for Super-16, so it shoots 4x3, but lines have been added to the glass, so not only do TV and 4:3 lines show up, but 16:9 lines show up as well.


You might consider testing 200T, maybe pushing it one stop if you can't afford the lights for a slower emulsion. I'd be concerned that 500T will fall apart since you're starting with a lower resolution and cropping. If you were sticking with the 4:3 ratio and pillarboxing it wouldn't be an issue, but where you're cropping to 16:9 you'll essentially be blowing up the data to fit within the larger aspect ratio.
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#5 Brett Blackwell

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:51 PM

When sending footage for transfer you would want to shoot a rack leader, this shows the telecine operator what your framing is.
So if you shoot 16x9 you could get either a HD transfer or anamorphic SD, these would be the highest resolution options but doesn't allow for re-framing in post. Below is a rack leader from the last short I shot. It is as easy as shooting a 16x9 frame on the wall that lines up with the lines on the GG of the camera.

rack_leader.jpg
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

When sending footage for transfer you would want to shoot a rack leader, this shows the telecine operator what your framing is.
So if you shoot 16x9 you could get either a HD transfer or anamorphic SD, these would be the highest resolution options but doesn't allow for re-framing in post. Below is a rack leader from the last short I shot. It is as easy as shooting a 16x9 frame on the wall that lines up with the lines on the GG of the camera.

rack_leader.jpg


Hi,

I would just show a Frame showing the edges, then no confusion can occur.

Stephen
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