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4K to2K?


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#1 Olivier Martinez

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:39 AM

Hello all. is it possible to to da 2K-masterneg (arrilaser) out of a 4K-DI? Thanks for some response.
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#2 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 12:45 PM

Hello all. is it possible to to da 2K-masterneg (arrilaser) out of a 4K-DI? Thanks for some response.
Olivier


Oliver - do you mean getting a film print out of a 4k DI? I'm not sure what you mean by master-neg, because wouldn't your OCN be that? Doing a 4k DI to print with no downconversion can be very expensive compared to downrezzing your 4k footage to 2k and then going to release print, which would be much more practical.
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#3 Olivier Martinez

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 01:40 PM

Oliver - do you mean getting a film print out of a 4k DI? I'm not sure what you mean by master-neg, because wouldn't your OCN be that? Doing a 4k DI to print with no downconversion can be very expensive compared to downrezzing your 4k footage to 2k and then going to release print, which would be much more practical.


Hello Elliot, yes, I meant doing a 2K masternegativ from my 4K-DI. Is it possible to do the downvonvertion on the arrilaser or does ot have to be made in the DI first?

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#4 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 02:30 PM

Hello Elliot, yes, I meant doing a 2K masternegativ from my 4K-DI. Is it possible to do the downvonvertion on the arrilaser or does ot have to be made in the DI first?

Olivier


Olivier, it would be best to have the DI company down-rez your 4k files to 2k and then send them to the arrilaser, simply because it would be easier to manage (because of the smaller file size).
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#5 Srinivas Mamidi

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 05:46 AM

Hello all. is it possible to to da 2K-masterneg (arrilaser) out of a 4K-DI? Thanks for some response.
Olivier


First thing why you want to do that? Next if you are looking from budget point of view.i dont think they will charge you a bomb for a 4k recording.Because scanning to grading and from there to render the 4k files take more time and space.Best solution would be scan and record at S2k(super 2k).http://timtyler.net/JBSX/files/redirect.asp?b=19
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#6 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 04:13 PM

First thing why you want to do that? Next if you are looking from budget point of view.i dont think they will charge you a bomb for a 4k recording.Because scanning to grading and from there to render the 4k files take more time and space.Best solution would be scan and record at S2k(super 2k).http://timtyler.net/JBSX/files/redirect.asp?b=19


Yes, if he's going to end up with a 2k print he might as well just scan everything 2k from the start. Labs do charge more for 4k prints, this cost can be very significant depending on your budget.

Sri - do us a favor and use your full name when you post. It's in the forum rules. Thank you.
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#7 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 12:21 AM

Yes, if he's going to end up with a 2k print he might as well just scan everything 2k from the start. Labs do charge more for 4k prints, this cost can be very significant depending on your budget.

Sri - do us a favor and use your full name when you post. It's in the forum rules. Thank you.


This is yet another reason to shoot 4K for archival (as of right now), and to work in 2k for your final delivery method (if possible). MOst of the time 1080/720 will suffice. But then again, very few people I know have done film outs.

Can we see samples once you've done the filmout?
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#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:30 AM

Hello all. is it possible to to da 2K-masterneg (arrilaser) out of a 4K-DI? Thanks for some response.
Olivier


This is more a question to ask the post house directly, to see what they would recommend when going from 4K to 2K. If you could let us know what they say, that'd be great :)
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#9 Srinivas Mamidi

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:22 AM

This is more a question to ask the post house directly, to see what they would recommend when going from 4K to 2K. If you could let us know what they say, that'd be great :)


Indian film industry produces more films than any other film industry in the world.I am working as a Di colorist from last 5 years.From my experience people will think 4k to 2k only when the post house doesn't have 4k recording.Like i said earlier Super 2k is best possible solution if you have any budget problems.Otherwise go for 4k recording.

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#10 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:14 PM

Indian film industry produces more films than any other film industry in the world.I am working as a Di colorist from last 5 years.From my experience people will think 4k to 2k only when the post house doesn't have 4k recording.Like i said earlier Super 2k is best possible solution if you have any budget problems.Otherwise go for 4k recording.

Srinivas Mamidi


Super 2k is another good option to consider, but again, if you can afford the extra costs associated with it. Even scanning at super 2k (scanning natively at 4k and having the scanner spit out 2k images) can eat in to your budget more than doing just a regular 2k scan itself. Film scanners like the Arriscan take 4 times longer to scan a frame at 4k than 2k (assuming you don't have their expensive speed upgrade), and the northlight scanner is even slower. Most post houses will charge you more for this extra time needed to scan natively at 4k. Sri, I would be very surprised if the DI house you work at didin't charge for this extra time. The DI house I work at uses an arriscan which produces relatively fast and great 2k scans (natively scanned at 3k resolution) that look only marginally lower in quality than Super 2k scans which take 4x the amount of time. The slight increase in quality seems questionable when factoring in the extra steps/costs. But then again, I've never seen a 2k film-out compared to a super 2k filmout.
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#11 Scott Fritzshall

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 07:29 PM

I would tend to disagree; I think it's definitely worth it to scan at 4k for 2k post. Where I'm working now, we have a Northlight scanner, and we scan everything at 4k, which is then downsampled to 2k for the work we do on it. Pretty much everything I've heard agrees that it's noticeably higher quality, although admittedly I haven't seen any direct comparisons either. I actually was under the impression that 4k scanning was the default mode for the Northlight, and I think I've even heard that it won't even do 2k, though I'm not sure if that's correct or not. But I'm a big image quality whore though, so of course I'm going to recommend that ;)
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#12 Dominic Case

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 09:00 PM

The longer you stay at 4K the better your results will be - all other things being equal (i.e.assumng every stage of the process is done well). But you get what you pay for.

It is worth scanning at 4K even if you immediately down-res to 2K for the DI work (which will be quicker and cheaper, because - for at best double the resolution, you have 4 x the amount of data to process and file.

If you end up with a 4K DI master, I would think you would need to check on the cost of down-ressing to 2K then going to the Arri laser, versus sending 4K files to the Arri house - versus outputting at 4K to the Arri. You might find there isn't much saving in cutting to 2K at that stage. That is assumng (as Elliot points out) that the Arri house can manage the 4K files.
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#13 Srinivas Mamidi

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 01:39 AM

Super 2k is another good option to consider, but again, if you can afford the extra costs associated with it. Even scanning at super 2k (scanning natively at 4k and having the scanner spit out 2k images) can eat in to your budget more than doing just a regular 2k scan itself. Film scanners like the Arriscan take 4 times longer to scan a frame at 4k than 2k (assuming you don't have their expensive speed upgrade), and the northlight scanner is even slower. Most post houses will charge you more for this extra time needed to scan natively at 4k. Sri, I would be very surprised if the DI house you work at didin't charge for this extra time. The DI house I work at uses an arriscan which produces relatively fast and great 2k scans (natively scanned at 3k resolution) that look only marginally lower in quality than Super 2k scans which take 4x the amount of time. The slight increase in quality seems questionable when factoring in the extra steps/costs. But then again, I've never seen a 2k film-out compared to a super 2k filmout.


We do charge extra for S2k project.If 4k recording is more of a budget issue i suggest go with S2k from scan to recording.
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