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beautiful reflect light system


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#1 Ram Shani

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:11 PM

http://www.cine-rls.com/

very nice power saving system

very simple and very smart
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#2 Matthew Rogers

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:23 AM

http://www.cine-rls.com/

very nice power saving system


Looks interesting. Do you know of prices?

Matthew
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#3 Ram Shani

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 01:57 PM

no i don't

never work with it

but you can ask at there web

Edited by Ram Shani, 11 February 2009 - 01:58 PM.

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#4 Serge Teulon

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:57 PM

very interesting
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#5 David Rakoczy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 09:48 PM

I thought it was novel... at best. Fine if you don't mind (most) of your light coming from a single direction... what I saw was a style of lighting that wasn't bold. It seemed (to me) that he was just raising the ambient levels and throwing in a couple strokes of light.. not real bold. Sure it is great if you have a low budget and can only afford a couple lights but hey, reflecting light is nothing new.. we do it every shoot in one form or another... and you certainly don't have to rig everything on a crane for pete's sake! Anyway, as much as I do enjoy reflecting light off hard surfaces and the organic luminance one can achieve, I found the whole 'system' pretentious, over built.. and frankly.. I could not stand the way he described his 1200 HMI (in the voice over)... it all just was a bit much for me :huh:

Sorry Ram.
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#6 Tim Tyler

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:52 AM

As was said here, using reflected sources to light is not new, but I did find this approach inventive and original in its own way.

I think I would welcome the challenge to light a project of some significant length with just a couple of lights, and it would be cool bragging rights if it ended up looking good.

I suspect it would be difficult to use a system like this on a set with suggestive directors, producers, and clients though. If the DP didn't have full creative control and the last word on lighting, a simple "can we bring up the fill side" might actually really complicate things.

And then there's the old set joke of calling "Re-light!" when a C-stand gets bumped. It seems that if this system's source got moved even a millimeter you'd probably have to re-light from scratch.

Watching their video definitely made me want to head to the hardware superstore to fill a shopping cart with odd, reflective things though.
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#7 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 07:50 PM

I like the concept of one big fixture many reflectors. 2 of them in different wattages on opposite sides of the set would make it better. Americans usually like hundreds of lights and a large crew to run them, whereas other countries' production crews tend to use what it is available more.

Depending on the project, I personally love to use the sun as key on set for interiors, and even if the sun moves around noticeably. That gets me weird looks on set somtetimes. "You mean you want to use shiny boards for this shot?" Obviously at dusk or dawn it doesn't work. Here in NM we have a lot of strong sunlight, making it perfect for sun lit short interior scene filming. Portland OR, different story . . .

Most DP's I have worked with relight almost completely for every set up, so it never really matches, even when trying to keep the lighting continuity straight. But if the acting and plot is any good most people never notice it.

I guess it all depends on style, budget, location, type of project and DP preference. But I LOVE reflectors and the sun. . .
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#8 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 02:47 AM

I could see this system being useful in certain situations, for example in historical locations where you can't rig lights inside, run cable, or bring in lots of stands. Or in remote locations where you don't have access to a lot of amperage. Or when you have to hide your lights for a long steadicam shot. But for normal shooting situations it seems rather finicky and time consuming. Maybe you can get the same kind of control with the various reflectors as you can with conventional lamps and grip gear, but it'd be far slower and thus ultimately more expensive for production.
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#9 Andreas Thalhammer

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 09:00 PM

I've actually worked with the lighting system on 2 projects. (prototype though)
I haven't worked with the huge Boom arm which holds the light on one side and the reflectors on the other (I think it's an old sound boom converted to hold the light)
The system was developed by Chrisitan Berger, Michael Haneke's D.o.P. along with the Bartenbach lighting laboratory. As you all pointed out quite well there's good and bad sides, good things first:
- The reflectors come in 3 different sizes, if I remember right, and they are unlike any shiny surfaces from a hardware store developed and you definitely can tell the difference in terms of quality of the light. Especially the orange one's which have some sort of honeycomb structure are very flattering.
- obviously these plates are not heavy at all so setting up "lights" is not an huge effort.
Disadvantages:
-The according light is a 1200w parallel beam . I remember shooting on some DVCPROHD Camera rated @ 320; in terms of output the fixture is, although it is parallel beam, still a 1,2k HMI and we found ourselves often in the situation of adding more reflectors and more lights in order to get the desired F Stop. Again I have to point out that we didn't have the boom which probably gives you the ideal reflector - lamphead distance to get the maximum out of it.
- There is for sure an economic fact that rental companies are very much aware of. If you purchase one of these kits and say they are not treated right (all the surfaces are very delicate!) and returned with some scratches, you will have to replace them; and quite frankly I think these things are too expensive to be treated as expendables.
- Furthermore I remember the magnet mounting system for standard stands giving us quite a hard time but I'm sure they improved it over the past years.
I wouldn't say that the system is bad - in my opinion the reflectors are gorgeous and I would love to have one set on standby on every shoot in the lighting truck. The only thing that didn't really convince me was the lamp. In general.
Anyway.. My 2 cents.
cheers
Andy
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#10 Michael Collier

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 09:26 PM

I saw this site a few weeks ago and I have been thinking on the system for a while now. It seems like it could have its uses, but its real advantage in my eyes is adding new ways to work, rather than replacing tried and true methods.

Unless they have you sign a contract saying you will only use their technique then its up to the artist to decide how it gets implemented. I don't see a day where I will light a set with one light bounced around.

I think in a hybrid system it could be very useful, combining rls with standard techniques. Not to mention those damn shots where you want a few dappled highlights punching through a window, or want a very subtle kicker in a place that nothing can really get into and do the job.

I am working off the assumption that the system is cheap, IE under 300/day. If a 1.2k costs under 200, then I see no reason a box of reflectors should cost more than 100/day. If it were that cheap then I could see using it if it were available locally.

But if this were the cost of an extra G&E truck, no way.




Come to think of it, it kind of reminds me of the opening scenes (and later scenes) of 'Fifth Element'. Azize! Light!
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#11 robert duke

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 10:54 AM

I saw this site a few weeks ago and I have been thinking on the system for a while now. It seems like it could have its uses, but its real advantage in my eyes is adding new ways to work, rather than replacing tried and true methods.

Unless they have you sign a contract saying you will only use their technique then its up to the artist to decide how it gets implemented. I don't see a day where I will light a set with one light bounced around.

I think in a hybrid system it could be very useful, combining rls with standard techniques. Not to mention those damn shots where you want a few dappled highlights punching through a window, or want a very subtle kicker in a place that nothing can really get into and do the job.

I am working off the assumption that the system is cheap, IE under 300/day. If a 1.2k costs under 200, then I see no reason a box of reflectors should cost more than 100/day. If it were that cheap then I could see using it if it were available locally.

But if this were the cost of an extra G&E truck, no way.



I saw this about a year ago in American Cine. I thought it seemed silly.
One light reflected and split multiple times.- If the source gets bumped or has to be moved for any reason, everything has to be refocused.

It claims that it frees up space on set and rigging time. but suddenly for one source you have 2 stands or more. Initial source and reflector (s). That sounds like more than a regular set to me. Even the Photos on the website look like any other set out there.

It is techniques that have been around since the dawn of film. bouncing lights with reflectors is not a new concept. Modern Studio Equipment has been selling mirror gags for over twenty years. A 1x1 mirror is on every grip truck already. 4x4 reflectors are standard fair on every grip truck.

The Lamp itself is Newish but not really. Molebeams and beam projectors have been around since the 50's. The Panilight is just an HMI beam projector. I do like beam projectors and an HMI version is great.

The goofiest part of the system is the light and reflector boom arm device. It looks HUGE, Heavy, and awkward. If that thing got bumped slipped... that would be a long day. I dont see how that thing is a space saving tool on a truck.

Creative yes. but nothing new.


Come to think of it, it kind of reminds me of the opening scenes (and later scenes) of 'Fifth Element'. Azize! Light!


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#12 Ian Choplick

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 05:13 PM

The reflectors are very appealing and seem that they could have a lot of relevance on set, but I do agree with the above comment, that if anything gets bumped, then it IS an entire re-light.
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