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how to make 500T 5219 look more grainy


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#1 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:59 AM

hello
i am about to shoot my diploma film
as a student film, there is no money, nor any stock for testing

the film deals with a small child past and his present where is a 24 year old
the film intercuts between the past and the present

the director wants the past to look grainer than the present
as such i selected to shoot the past with Kodak vision 3 500T
and the present to be shot using kodak Vision 2 200T

The past should also have a little brownish tint to it

please suggest me what to do for the past..

i was thinking of shooting the past and exposing it one stop under and later on push process it by one stop

for the brownish tint i was wondering if i could achieve it during the table correction before the print? the color palette should be like the one seen in Lock Stock

thanks
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#2 Gus Sacks

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:31 PM

Push processing 7219 doesn't really bring noticable grain. I'd recommend at least pushing it two stops if you really want to see a lot of grain, or shooting 7218, which is grainier than 7219.
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#3 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:35 PM

i am shooting in 35mm n not 16mm
well, will pushing 2 stops introduce alot of grains? i just want more noticeable grains than the 200T
and overall im looking for a more amberish look
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#4 James Compton

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 01:27 PM

Forget 5219. It was created to be less grainy. Shoot on 5229. It is ALOT more grainier than 5219.Pushing 5229 one stop will add more grain.
I shot 2 short films on 5229 and it was just the right amount of grain that I needed. If you can get
a tobacco camera filter, that will help add the brown you speak of. Shoot filter with a 35mm slr or digital camera to see results that wil be somewhat close to how the filter wil color the scene.
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#5 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:19 PM

hello
thnx for the advice
will look at the possibility of gettin 5229 instead
however i was looking for a grainy picture as in the picture ive attched
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#6 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:20 PM

http://www.flickr.co...57607397663179/
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#7 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:18 PM

That's an 800ASA (the T3200 is 800ASA but designed to be pushed two stops if memory serves) stock being pushed three stops. I would think you'd at least want to start with 5279 and then push it a couple stops.
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#8 David Rakoczy

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 09:51 PM

You don't even have to push... just underexpose.
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#9 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:01 AM

damn, im comfused!

my college is only providing me with 500T 5219 vision 3 stock
what is is the i could do with this stock to get the desired look?
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#10 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 01:00 AM

You don't even have to push... just underexpose.


I was just about to say that. Push processing 35 will give you a bit more grain, but probably not as much as underexposing and printing up will. Part of the reason to push process is to render the best image from an underexposed negative, with minimal grain. If you print UP you'll be revealing the underexposed portions of the negative, and you'll get the grain you're looking for.

I'd love to do that though, shooting at 2000 ASA would be fun ;)

Try shooting some 35mm still photography as a test, underexpose then have it pushed, and see what you come up with. It's not MP film, but it'll give you an idea.
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#11 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 01:16 AM

I'd love to do that though, shooting at 2000 ASA would be fun ;)

I shot some stuff at 12,800 ASA a few years ago. It WAS fun, and in my opinion, yielded a very romantic look. I'd like to try it in color sometime, although I doubt I'll like it as much.
Here's an examle:
[attachment=4917:File0720.jpg]
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#12 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 01:58 AM

gr8
sounds good
im thinking of underexposing 2 stops, i.e. 2000ASA
n the print up 2 stops to go bak to 500 ASA

is it alright to do so to get some grains?
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#13 Chris Millar

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 02:26 AM

um,

shoot 16mm ?!?
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#14 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 02:42 AM

um,

shoot 16mm ?!?



nope 35mm
5219
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#15 Chris Millar

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 06:03 AM

nope 35mm
5219


Yip, I get that - I'm just saying you might want to consider 16mm - it would give you the grain you want and retain the gamma/contrast etc... of shooting/processing the same in 35mm to play with as you desire and not be stuck with the other perhaps unwanted characteristics of underexposure/overdevelopment - basically its the best way to set all things (but grain) equal.

If your workflow/final product permits another way would be to simply crop in transfer and/or post, youd have to mask the finder correctly when shooting... but you can keep using your 35mm set up (lenses will have different coverage however).
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#16 Chris Burke

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

hello
i am about to shoot my diploma film
as a student film, there is no money, nor any stock for testing




Why not any stock for testing? Most all labs, and I know that is a big statement, will give you stock and test it for free if not very inexpensively. This is usually the case, so why not ask around. If the lab you are using won't do this, then look for another lab. Times are tough for everyone, the labs want your business, comping you 100 or even 200 feet of film is nothing to them. It is too bad they will only give you the 5219. Beg them if they have any 29 or 18 or even 79 available. 5219 is by no means a grainy stock. By the way, you shots you posted did not look that grainy either.
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#17 Chris Burke

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 11:32 AM

the photo above shows Delta 3200 in 120 rated at 2000.
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#18 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 11:32 AM

Why not any stock for testing? Most all labs, and I know that is a big statement, will give you stock and test it for free if not very inexpensively. This is usually the case, so why not ask around. If the lab you are using won't do this, then look for another lab. Times are tough for everyone, the labs want your business, comping you 100 or even 200 feet of film is nothing to them. It is too bad they will only give you the 5219. Beg them if they have any 29 or 18 or even 79 available. 5219 is by no means a grainy stock. By the way, you shots you posted did not look that grainy either.


hi
well this is a student project. infact the lab is processing and printing for free. they are not charging anything
however i did went to the lab today and got my stock changed to visionII 500T
thats the max they will do for me
for the present scenes in the film ive got 250D. all the present scenes will be shot in a hospital room, so i was looking to get a cooler effect.
I do agree that the pic i put up is not really very grainy, but the whole idea is to make the past look grainier than the present.
i did speak to my professor today, and i was advised to rate the stock at 1000ASA and then print up one stop during the analyzer correction.
well i was wondering if analyzer correction is the same as printing up? or is it any other procedure?
moreover i was wondering that i should take a risk by rating the stock 1500ASA and then later on printing it up by 1 1/2 stops
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#19 Robert Tagliaferri

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 08:32 AM

Not sure how it is in your area, but here in Toronto both Kodak and Fuji have 'student liasons' that you can talk to and they will generally provide test rolls for this purpose, as long as they're convinced you're not shooting your whole project on test rolls! The policy at Technicolor here (last time I asked as a student) is they will charge you for processing/transfer of tests, but then take that amount off the final total when you process/transfer the rest of the film.

Also, if I wanted grain I'd opt for 5218 over 19, or even look into some of the Fuji stocks... I've never really shot them but I here they are grainier. In the current issue of AC magazine, Harris Savides talks about how he was frustrated he couldn't get any grain out of the current 35mm stocks for "Milk". The new stocks from kodak are very clean.
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#20 Shubham Kasera

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 08:59 AM

Not sure how it is in your area, but here in Toronto both Kodak and Fuji have 'student liasons' that you can talk to and they will generally provide test rolls for this purpose, as long as they're convinced you're not shooting your whole project on test rolls! The policy at Technicolor here (last time I asked as a student) is they will charge you for processing/transfer of tests, but then take that amount off the final total when you process/transfer the rest of the film.

Also, if I wanted grain I'd opt for 5218 over 19, or even look into some of the Fuji stocks... I've never really shot them but I here they are grainier. In the current issue of AC magazine, Harris Savides talks about how he was frustrated he couldn't get any grain out of the current 35mm stocks for "Milk". The new stocks from kodak are very clean.


hello
well the labs here are not being too helpful here
however, i did manage to get some 5279 stock from another film school here, to shoot the scenes i wanted grainy
i did manage to get 7 cans of it
tomo ill be goin to the lab again to find out about printin up the stock
can anyone tell me if there are different techniques to print up? and which one is better to get grains?
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