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automatic exposure for nizo 801


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#1 tom doherty

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:11 PM

hi
am still kind of new to super8 and because of this prefer to use the automatic exposure function on my nizo 801.
was wondering if anyone knew if any exposure adjustments that MUST be made when using any of the following stocks with a nizo:
- tri-x
- plus-x
- ektachrome
- vision2 200t
- vision2 500t

in a way am hoping i can just put the cartridge in and just shoot away, keeping it simple
thanks
tom
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#2 Jim Carlile

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:39 PM

It will read them all correctly except V500.

That Nizo will only read up to ASA 160T, so with the daylight cartridge that 500 negative is packed in, the meter will be set to ASA 100. That's a little more than 2 stops overexposed, so compensate accordingly, or use V200 instead, which will be exposed at ASA 100 as well, but that's OK by design.
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#3 tom doherty

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:02 PM

thanks for the reaply

so i take it i can use any of these stocks (apart from the 500t) in my nizo, and not have to make any notch interferences (whatever this entails)?
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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:33 AM

It will read them all correctly except V500.

That Nizo will only read up to ASA 160T, so with the daylight cartridge that 500 negative is packed in, the meter will be set to ASA 100. That's a little more than 2 stops overexposed, so compensate accordingly, or use V200 instead, which will be exposed at ASA 100 as well, but that's OK by design.


Would it read it as 160 with a notch cut out of the cart? If so, that is exactly where it wants to be for using the 500T outdoors.
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#5 Jim Carlile

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:44 PM

Yeah, if you cut a notch in the cartridge, the meter will be set to ASA 160. But that's about 1 1/2 stops overexposed.
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#6 tom doherty

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 08:10 AM

Yeah, if you cut a notch in the cartridge, the meter will be set to ASA 160. But that's about 1 1/2 stops overexposed.


shot 2 rolls of tri-x (with the nizo) a few weeks ago, but have just read that the nizos internal lightmeter does not read tri-x properly? can anyone confirm this? was hoping to shoot tri-x for a straight8 entry.
thanks
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#7 Jim Carlile

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 04:20 AM

shot 2 rolls of tri-x (with the nizo) a few weeks ago, but have just read that the nizos internal lightmeter does not read tri-x properly? can anyone confirm this? was hoping to shoot tri-x for a straight8 entry.
thanks


Well, the Nizo will read it at ASA 100, which is one-stop overexposed. That's not necessarily bad, especially in low-light conditions, where you need it wide open anyway.

With silver bodied Nizos there are two solutions to get around the ASA 160 limitation. Either cut a filter notch in each cartridge to circumvent the ASA 100 setting (the 'daylight' film reading), or-- easier-- just insert the notchless cartridge and toggle the filter switch to bulb.

If you notice, toggling the switch back and forth gives you a slightly higher and lower reading. Use the smaller aperture one (the bigger number in the viewfinder)-- so that the meter is being set for ASA 160 vs. 100. It's a unique feature of these particular cameras, this toggling ability-- a way for them to cancel out the 2/3 stop kick-down caused by the regular notchless-cartridge/super 8 protocol.

Without this ability, the silver Nizos cannot read high-speed daylight films accurately without doing construction work to the film cartridges, which was unheard of years ago.

Remember, this feature is exclusive to these Nizos-- most newer advanced cameras can read above 160 so there's no problem (an exception--sound Elmos).

What Kodak does is they notch Tri-X at ASA 250, and then use the notchless cartridge to kick the reading down to the daylight complement of the ASA 250 speed-indice size (both speeds use the same size indice-- that's how the cameras choose between the two-- they see if the cartridge is notchless. If it is, they go with the lower ASA).

This notchless cartridge also kicks out the camera's internal 85 filter, but that's OK, because by design, none of these 'daylight' films need a filter. It's all a very concisely designed system.

It's also the reason why the Nizos read Tri-X at ASA 100. They think the cartridge's ASA 250 speed-indice is 160-- it's all they can read-- so they set the meter to the ASA 160's complement, which is ASA 100.

BTW, this is how Kodak speed-notches Plus-X, -- they use the ASA 160 speed-indice, then have the notchless cartridge kick the speed down to a precise ASA 100.

Not all cameras work this way according to the prescribed super 8 protocol, but Nizos and Canons do.

Edited by Jim Carlile, 04 March 2009 - 04:23 AM.

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#8 tom doherty

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 01:35 PM

Well, the Nizo will read it at ASA 100, which is one-stop overexposed. That's not necessarily bad, especially in low-light conditions, where you need it wide open anyway.

With silver bodied Nizos there are two solutions to get around the ASA 160 limitation. Either cut a filter notch in each cartridge to circumvent the ASA 100 setting (the 'daylight' film reading), or-- easier-- just insert the notchless cartridge and toggle the filter switch to bulb.

If you notice, toggling the switch back and forth gives you a slightly higher and lower reading. Use the smaller aperture one (the bigger number in the viewfinder)-- so that the meter is being set for ASA 160 vs. 100. It's a unique feature of these particular cameras, this toggling ability-- a way for them to cancel out the 2/3 stop kick-down caused by the regular notchless-cartridge/super 8 protocol.

Without this ability, the silver Nizos cannot read high-speed daylight films accurately without doing construction work to the film cartridges, which was unheard of years ago.

Remember, this feature is exclusive to these Nizos-- most newer advanced cameras can read above 160 so there's no problem (an exception--sound Elmos).

What Kodak does is they notch Tri-X at ASA 250, and then use the notchless cartridge to kick the reading down to the daylight complement of the ASA 250 speed-indice size (both speeds use the same size indice-- that's how the cameras choose between the two-- they see if the cartridge is notchless. If it is, they go with the lower ASA).

This notchless cartridge also kicks out the camera's internal 85 filter, but that's OK, because by design, none of these 'daylight' films need a filter. It's all a very concisely designed system.

It's also the reason why the Nizos read Tri-X at ASA 100. They think the cartridge's ASA 250 speed-indice is 160-- it's all they can read-- so they set the meter to the ASA 160's complement, which is ASA 100.

BTW, this is how Kodak speed-notches Plus-X, -- they use the ASA 160 speed-indice, then have the notchless cartridge kick the speed down to a precise ASA 100.

Not all cameras work this way according to the prescribed super 8 protocol, but Nizos and Canons do.




think i get the jist. just. wish it was slightly easier and did more research into this before planning for straight8.
can anyone reccomend any camera that can read all 5 kodak stocks without any troubles, notching etc?
thanks
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#9 Jim Carlile

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:08 AM

think i get the jist. just. wish it was slightly easier and did more research into this before planning for straight8.
can anyone reccomend any camera that can read all 5 kodak stocks without any troubles, notching etc?
thanks


The Nizo 6080, Canon 1014, 1014XLS, the Beaulieu's are set manually for the ASA, and lots of older, bigtime silent cameras, made back when film manufacturers were promising lots of different stocks. Sound Elmos should probably be avoided if you want a big ASA range, but they can manual exposure, too.

But there's really nothing to worry about. The 801 is as good as it gets, and its ASA limitation can be easily overcome. Use VISION 200, and if you really need the 500's speed, then that means your aperture will be open up all the way anyway, so it doesn't matter if the meter thinks you have a slower film.

Negative stock is very forgiving, and all the existing reversal films will work well in those Nizos. If in doubt, just cut a notch in the daylight cartridges.
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#10 tom doherty

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 09:15 PM

The Nizo 6080, Canon 1014, 1014XLS, the Beaulieu's are set manually for the ASA, and lots of older, bigtime silent cameras, made back when film manufacturers were promising lots of different stocks. Sound Elmos should probably be avoided if you want a big ASA range, but they can manual exposure, too.

But there's really nothing to worry about. The 801 is as good as it gets, and its ASA limitation can be easily overcome. Use VISION 200, and if you really need the 500's speed, then that means your aperture will be open up all the way anyway, so it doesn't matter if the meter thinks you have a slower film.

Negative stock is very forgiving, and all the existing reversal films will work well in those Nizos. If in doubt, just cut a notch in the daylight cartridges.


thanks for the quick reply. glad to hear 200t should be ok in most lighting situations, same with existing reversal stocks. im quite happy using the nizo as its the first and only camera ive used, and has all the framerates etc that i like in a super8 camera. you say cut a notch if in doubt, how do i do this, any specific measurements, and where in the cartridge? as i said, im completely new with notch cutting and all that jazz.
cheers again
tom
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#11 Jim Carlile

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:39 PM

One picture is worth a thousand, er....check this out:



Basically, you just want to safely break the plastic to allow the camera's filter pin to stay out and not be pushed in.

When it's in, the internal 85 filter is removed from the light path, and the meter gets set to the daylight film speed of whatever the cartridge's speed-notch indice is (and this is always 2/3 stop less than its tungsten ASA speed.)

With later cameras this won't happen, pushing in the filter pin doesn't change the ASA setting, but that's another story...
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