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filtration for the RED


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#1 F Bulgarelli

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 12:58 PM

Hello,

Has anyone have eperience with filtration and the RED, I'm shooting a short and I'm thinking about using 1/8 BPM just to take the edge off a bit, digital can be overly sharp at times and we are going for more of a gritty look. Unfortunetly I won't be able to test ahead of time but will play around with various things on the set.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,

Francisco
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#2 Serge Teulon

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:04 PM

I don't mean to be facetious but why not shoot with something gritty, like s16mm?
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#3 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:10 PM

You'll want to make sure your ND filters have an IR cut in them else you run the risk of Infrared pollution when throwing on heavy NDs.
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:32 PM

Sure, you can use light diffusion just like any other camera. RED is not particularly edgy so you don't need much.
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#5 Peter Moretti

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 03:04 PM

David, et al,

A lot of Red users claim that the extensive use of metadata and the RAW codec's high quality make filters inappropriate for use with the Red One.

I think this sounds a little odd, being that film still captures considerably more info than does a Red, yet no one says "Don't use filters when shooting film."

In your experience, do you think that the subtle effects of a filter should be left for post production or "baked in" to image coming to the sensor?

Thanks much guys.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:34 PM

There are arguments both ways for using diffusion filters on camera versus doing them in post, it's not particularly a RED issue -- anything going through a D.I., film included, could be digitally diffused.

I played with some digital diffusion on "Manure" and part of me was glad to have that control in post... and part of me saw that it was taking longer to do it in the D.I. and wishing I had done it all in-camera, especially when some producers want to get rid of all the diffusion effects.

So it may be simpler to just do it in-camera if that's what you want. There's no particular reason why not when using the RED compared to any other camera. Using diffusion is just a matter of determining the strength relative to the final softness you want to achieve. You may need to use less when shooting on a "softer" camera.

The notion that the "RAW codec's high quality" making filters unnecessary is complete nonsense. In fact, it would make more sense if you said something's poor quality would make using diffusion filters a questionable decision rather than the other way around. A good image doesn't negate the ability to use diffusion filters if you wanted that effect.
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#7 Peter Moretti

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:43 AM

I think I'm going to test some filters on my HDV camera and see how they compare to what I can do in post. I'm considering picking up the following Tiffens:

Black Diffusion 1/2
Black Pro-Mist 1/2
Glimmer Glass 1

I don't have a Red, but want to learn how how filters versus post effects are used to change the image. Does that seem like a good sampling of filters and reasonable strengths for 1/3 chip HDV?

Thanks much guys!
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#8 Sing Howe Yam

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:49 AM

I agree with David about the RED. It is not as harsh as other HD cameras. I was thinking that my footage was softer due to me using Canon FD lenses due to age and tech. But than I shot some stuff with nicer glass, some zeiss and cooke glass and I was amazed. Still sharper but not that HD sharpness. I've been using diffusion on the RED more for the effect of halation of hard back lights or point sources rather than softening the image.
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#9 John Sprung

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:21 PM

Bayer pattern cameras, of which Red is one, have the issue that the OLPF you need for green is only half of what you need for red and blue. So, they have to pick a compromise which usually means discarding some green and luminance resolution to keep from aliasing too much in red and blue.

So if you want to soften the image with filters, please go ahead. Whatever you hang in front of the lens will help with aliasing in red and blue, and do it in a way that is impossible to do as well after the photons hit the silicon.





-- J.S.
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#10 John Brawley

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:54 PM

David, et al,

A lot of Red users claim that the extensive use of metadata and the RAW codec's high quality make filters inappropriate for use with the Red One.

I think this sounds a little odd, being that film still captures considerably more info than does a Red, yet no one says "Don't use filters when shooting film."



That's cause it *is* odd !!!

There's no way you can soften in the same way a classic soft does optically for example. What about simple ND grads ? If the sky is blown out in a shot, no metadata is going to save you. You're still screwed without a grad !

Back to the OP, a 1/8 would be pretty *light* in feel. It depends of course on the focal length as well. What about using some atmosphere in front of the lens ? (hazer's for example)

jb
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